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You're pointing that implication arrow the wrong way there.

vanderZwan 4y ago
Could you write out the implication arrow you think you're seeing for the people who genuinely don't see anything here beyond what has been spelled out explicitly, like me? (I'm not from the US, I presume I'm missing some context)
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  The implication is that the USA does it and therefore it doesn't need to have fascists and eugenicists in power and can happen in a democratic country.
  - vanderZwan 4y ago
    So I'm not trying to pick a fight (I may very well be agreeing with your views as far as I know), but I'm genuinely still lost at what you mean. I don't think I see what's wrong with that direction, unless I'm reversing it along a different axis than what you have in mind. I were to attempt to reverse that statement it would say "this can happen in a democratic country, a country doesn't need to have fascists and eugenicists in power => therefore the USA does it". I mean I know the USA does this, but stating it can happen in a democratic country therefore it must happen in the USA isn't how causality works I think. Wait, are you saying the reversed implication is that the USA isn't actually a democracy and or that it is a fascist country?
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      > USA isn't actually a democracy and or that it is a fascist country If it did and does facist things in opposition to what the majority of its residents want then yeah. Walks like a duck and all that.
      - vanderZwan 4y ago
        Thank you for clarifying, I can see that argument (although truth be told I think no country on earth truly qualifies as a real democracy in the way that their governments function).
boomboomsubban 4y ago
I genuinely have no idea what you mean, please explain further.
- pasquinelli 4y ago
  i take their meaning to be that the conclusion to draw is that the united states is fascist because (among other things i'm sure) they ran a program a fascist government ran (before the fascist government even), rather than concluding that even non-fascist countries run these types of programs.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  I think they’re making the same point I meant to make. Which isn’t exactly the same as the interpretation of my point that another comment added. US policy towards natives was directly cited as a model for nazism, and has been a model for programs in fascist and non-fascist regimes implementing similar policies for a long time. The US isn’t fascist, as another response interprets my meaning, but establishing a prototype for fascist policies should be recognized as such. The extent to which the US isn’t fascist is mostly lucky internal trivia for those of us who get to experience that luck. And that pendulum has a lot of inertia in the wrong direction. Best to recognize when we influenced some of the world’s worst mass crimes. That’s my point.
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    >Best to recognize when we influenced some of the world’s worst mass crimes. That’s my point. I largely agree with that point, but was making a separate one that these issues don't just happen far away or a long time ago. At best, it happened in the US in living memory, at worst some version of it is still happening.

Could you write out the implication arrow you think you're seeing for the people who genuinely don't see anything here beyond what has been spelled out explicitly, like me? (I'm not from the US, I presume I'm missing some context)

Schroedingersat 4y ago
The implication is that the USA does it and therefore it doesn't need to have fascists and eugenicists in power and can happen in a democratic country.
- vanderZwan 4y ago
  So I'm not trying to pick a fight (I may very well be agreeing with your views as far as I know), but I'm genuinely still lost at what you mean. I don't think I see what's wrong with that direction, unless I'm reversing it along a different axis than what you have in mind. I were to attempt to reverse that statement it would say "this can happen in a democratic country, a country doesn't need to have fascists and eugenicists in power => therefore the USA does it". I mean I know the USA does this, but stating it can happen in a democratic country therefore it must happen in the USA isn't how causality works I think. Wait, are you saying the reversed implication is that the USA isn't actually a democracy and or that it is a fascist country?
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    > USA isn't actually a democracy and or that it is a fascist country If it did and does facist things in opposition to what the majority of its residents want then yeah. Walks like a duck and all that.
    - vanderZwan 4y ago
      Thank you for clarifying, I can see that argument (although truth be told I think no country on earth truly qualifies as a real democracy in the way that their governments function).

boomboomsubban 4y ago

I genuinely have no idea what you mean, please explain further.

pasquinelli 4y ago
i take their meaning to be that the conclusion to draw is that the united states is fascist because (among other things i'm sure) they ran a program a fascist government ran (before the fascist government even), rather than concluding that even non-fascist countries run these types of programs.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
I think they’re making the same point I meant to make. Which isn’t exactly the same as the interpretation of my point that another comment added. US policy towards natives was directly cited as a model for nazism, and has been a model for programs in fascist and non-fascist regimes implementing similar policies for a long time. The US isn’t fascist, as another response interprets my meaning, but establishing a prototype for fascist policies should be recognized as such. The extent to which the US isn’t fascist is mostly lucky internal trivia for those of us who get to experience that luck. And that pendulum has a lot of inertia in the wrong direction. Best to recognize when we influenced some of the world’s worst mass crimes. That’s my point.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  >Best to recognize when we influenced some of the world’s worst mass crimes. That’s my point. I largely agree with that point, but was making a separate one that these issues don't just happen far away or a long time ago. At best, it happened in the US in living memory, at worst some version of it is still happening.