5 ms·

Bargain hunter scores 700-year-old document

71 points by Vigier 4y ago

bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
For those curious: it was from an estate sale in Maine, and the estimated value is $10k.
- neogodless 4y ago
  I'm guessing the above is a "too long, didn't read"? In the article > A bargain hunter who went to an estate sale in Maine > An expert on manuscripts said the document, first reported by the Maine Monitor, could be worth as much as $10,000.
kleiba 4y ago
Wow, both 700 years old and medieval! How lucky!
- dang 4y ago
  Ok, we've gotten unmedieval on its ass.
  - kleiba 4y ago
    Dang, now my comment's no longer funny... but then again: maybe it never was :-)
- insane_dreamer 4y ago
  rare combo indeed
- sophacles 4y ago
  There are parts of the world that aren't European... many of them existed 700 years ago too, and were populated by people who had unlocked writing.
  - kleiba 4y ago
    ...and have nothing to do with this article.
ourmandave 4y ago
The page purchased by Sideri is of particular interest to scholars. It’s a treasure both because of its age and condition, which is far better than the other page in the Colby collection, said Megan Cook, Sideri’s former professor, who teaches medieval literature at Colby. The parchment is worth upward of $10,000, according to Davis. But Sideri said he has no intention of selling it. ... “This is something at the end of the day that I know is cool,” he said. “I didn’t buy this expecting to sell it.” Ah, he's already positioning with "No lowballers, I know what I've got."
- ProAm 4y ago
  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar
throw7 4y ago
"The full missal was once owned by William Randolph Hearst, the newspaper publisher, before being sold in the 1940s and, much to the consternation of today’s academics, was divvied up into individual pages, she said." Everything's for sale. :(
- hnbad 4y ago
  Just think of how much value was added by divvying it up into individual pages if a single page is worth $10,000. /s
  - actually_a_dog 4y ago
    You may joke, but this is actually a very, very common issue collectors of historical documents face. Collectors of physical bond certificates also face this issue in the form of complete bonds being cut apart and the coupons being sold separately from the certificate itself. It's quite maddening, actually.
    - hnbad 4y ago
      The sarcasm was that destroying a historical artefact "adds value", not that it is a common practice. Europeans literally used to cut up mummies and sell the fragments. But the only way it "adds value" is purely from the perspective of maximizing revenue, the same way scalpers "add value" by buying up products for cheap at the original price and then making a profit by charging more.
      - Eleison23 4y ago
        Interestingly, Egyptian mummies resulted from a process whereby the enbalmers would take apart the human body from the inside out and preserve the organs separately, so in a way, the Europeans were merely continuing the process of "parting them out". As far as adding value, why not turn valuable works into NFTs by destroying them? https://culturacolectiva.com/art/frida-kahlo-artwork-burned-nft/ https://culturacolectiva.com/art/frida-kahlo-artwork-burned-...
daniel-cussen 4y ago
Oh that happened to me recently. So I actually talk to both beggars and cops, which nobody does, everybody takes advice from civil rights lawyers and the gangsters they give impunity, which agree that you should never talk to police. Same advice. Coincidence. Both treat both homeless and cops like shit. Coincidence. Anyway so I'm talking to him, and he shows me some big huge format documents, like 30 inches by 40 inches, inches not centimeters, and I look, holy shit, somebody forgot to use the incinerator, military intelligence on the street. Literally on the street, laying there on the concrete, getting dirty, maps made in England with analog mapmaking, Crown Copyright from the 70's and 80's, of the coastline of Argentina, complete with information of reefs which eg an aircraft carrier could collide with. It was obvious that was the intention. Dude obviously threatened to nuke Buenos Aires. Notably Banco Inglés, with a tilde and everything, we're talking high production values, the absolute highest, English Admiralty, Superpower internal information. As an native English speaker, I would translate that bank's name to English as Fuck You Sandbank, which protected Buenos Aires once precisely from the same Royal Navy. The depth is 0.7 meters, according to the map I had, and they map uses analog measurements from English satellites, analog photography. So point being somebody forgot to burn them, there's leaks, they're sloppy, they got to a spy, the spy moved to Santiago, the spy gave up on his conspiracy theories and gave them to a beggar, beggar had no idea what they were worth, I bought them for $20, a complete collection, like it says this part to the South is in map 3134, sure enough I also had map 3134, it's everything. Especially the Falklands. Even shows the kelp forests. Military intelligence. No pixels no matter how close you zoom in. All hand made.
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  This comment made my day. You are not alone in talking to beggars and cops, they’re the most interesting strangers to speak with. I hope you don’t catch flak for putting it so dramatically, I really enjoyed it, and especially the story that followed. Super cool item to own. Like you’re living in an RPG.
  - daniel-cussen 4y ago
    That's exactly what it's like, like I'm living in an RPG. Attack damage carry. I do get a lot of flak. Unscathed. The word is videoludic, video like video, ludic like ludum meaning game in Latin, my life is videoludic.
actually_a_dog 4y ago
Incidentally, this appears to be a portion of a premodern musical score. You wouldn't be able to just sit down and play it as if it were a modern score, because the scales started at a different place way back when, but it could certainly be transcribed to modern notation and would be playable/singable then.
- Bud 4y ago
  Nope! Lots of pro singers (including me) can read this as-is. No need to transcribe to modern notation. This chant notation is still very commonly used and read today by all kinds of professionals.
  - actually_a_dog 4y ago
    Well, then, I (happily!) stand corrected. Still, this notation would not be immediately playable to an instrumentalist who had never specifically studied medieval music, and that is probably most of them.
  - zumu 4y ago
    It's amazing a notation standard has lasted over 800 years. Does it have a name? I'd love to read about it further.

71 points by Vigier 4y ago

bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago

For those curious: it was from an estate sale in Maine, and the estimated value is $10k.

neogodless 4y ago
I'm guessing the above is a "too long, didn't read"? In the article > A bargain hunter who went to an estate sale in Maine > An expert on manuscripts said the document, first reported by the Maine Monitor, could be worth as much as $10,000.

kleiba 4y ago

Wow, both 700 years old and medieval! How lucky!

dang 4y ago
Ok, we've gotten unmedieval on its ass.
- kleiba 4y ago
  Dang, now my comment's no longer funny... but then again: maybe it never was :-)
insane_dreamer 4y ago
rare combo indeed
sophacles 4y ago
There are parts of the world that aren't European... many of them existed 700 years ago too, and were populated by people who had unlocked writing.
- kleiba 4y ago
  ...and have nothing to do with this article.

ourmandave 4y ago

The page purchased by Sideri is of particular interest to scholars. It’s a treasure both because of its age and condition, which is far better than the other page in the Colby collection, said Megan Cook, Sideri’s former professor, who teaches medieval literature at Colby. The parchment is worth upward of $10,000, according to Davis. But Sideri said he has no intention of selling it. ... “This is something at the end of the day that I know is cool,” he said. “I didn’t buy this expecting to sell it.” Ah, he's already positioning with "No lowballers, I know what I've got."

ProAm 4y ago
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

throw7 4y ago

"The full missal was once owned by William Randolph Hearst, the newspaper publisher, before being sold in the 1940s and, much to the consternation of today’s academics, was divvied up into individual pages, she said." Everything's for sale. :(

hnbad 4y ago
Just think of how much value was added by divvying it up into individual pages if a single page is worth $10,000. /s
- actually_a_dog 4y ago
  You may joke, but this is actually a very, very common issue collectors of historical documents face. Collectors of physical bond certificates also face this issue in the form of complete bonds being cut apart and the coupons being sold separately from the certificate itself. It's quite maddening, actually.
  - hnbad 4y ago
    The sarcasm was that destroying a historical artefact "adds value", not that it is a common practice. Europeans literally used to cut up mummies and sell the fragments. But the only way it "adds value" is purely from the perspective of maximizing revenue, the same way scalpers "add value" by buying up products for cheap at the original price and then making a profit by charging more.
    - Eleison23 4y ago
      Interestingly, Egyptian mummies resulted from a process whereby the enbalmers would take apart the human body from the inside out and preserve the organs separately, so in a way, the Europeans were merely continuing the process of "parting them out". As far as adding value, why not turn valuable works into NFTs by destroying them? https://culturacolectiva.com/art/frida-kahlo-artwork-burned-nft/ https://culturacolectiva.com/art/frida-kahlo-artwork-burned-...

daniel-cussen 4y ago

Oh that happened to me recently. So I actually talk to both beggars and cops, which nobody does, everybody takes advice from civil rights lawyers and the gangsters they give impunity, which agree that you should never talk to police. Same advice. Coincidence. Both treat both homeless and cops like shit. Coincidence. Anyway so I'm talking to him, and he shows me some big huge format documents, like 30 inches by 40 inches, inches not centimeters, and I look, holy shit, somebody forgot to use the incinerator, military intelligence on the street. Literally on the street, laying there on the concrete, getting dirty, maps made in England with analog mapmaking, Crown Copyright from the 70's and 80's, of the coastline of Argentina, complete with information of reefs which eg an aircraft carrier could collide with. It was obvious that was the intention. Dude obviously threatened to nuke Buenos Aires. Notably Banco Inglés, with a tilde and everything, we're talking high production values, the absolute highest, English Admiralty, Superpower internal information. As an native English speaker, I would translate that bank's name to English as Fuck You Sandbank, which protected Buenos Aires once precisely from the same Royal Navy. The depth is 0.7 meters, according to the map I had, and they map uses analog measurements from English satellites, analog photography. So point being somebody forgot to burn them, there's leaks, they're sloppy, they got to a spy, the spy moved to Santiago, the spy gave up on his conspiracy theories and gave them to a beggar, beggar had no idea what they were worth, I bought them for $20, a complete collection, like it says this part to the South is in map 3134, sure enough I also had map 3134, it's everything. Especially the Falklands. Even shows the kelp forests. Military intelligence. No pixels no matter how close you zoom in. All hand made.

DiggyJohnson 4y ago
This comment made my day. You are not alone in talking to beggars and cops, they’re the most interesting strangers to speak with. I hope you don’t catch flak for putting it so dramatically, I really enjoyed it, and especially the story that followed. Super cool item to own. Like you’re living in an RPG.
- daniel-cussen 4y ago
  That's exactly what it's like, like I'm living in an RPG. Attack damage carry. I do get a lot of flak. Unscathed. The word is videoludic, video like video, ludic like ludum meaning game in Latin, my life is videoludic.

actually_a_dog 4y ago

Incidentally, this appears to be a portion of a premodern musical score. You wouldn't be able to just sit down and play it as if it were a modern score, because the scales started at a different place way back when, but it could certainly be transcribed to modern notation and would be playable/singable then.

Bud 4y ago
Nope! Lots of pro singers (including me) can read this as-is. No need to transcribe to modern notation. This chant notation is still very commonly used and read today by all kinds of professionals.
- actually_a_dog 4y ago
  Well, then, I (happily!) stand corrected. Still, this notation would not be immediately playable to an instrumentalist who had never specifically studied medieval music, and that is probably most of them.
- zumu 4y ago
  It's amazing a notation standard has lasted over 800 years. Does it have a name? I'd love to read about it further.