6 ms·

This doesn't seem drastically different than what was openly happening to Native Americans in the US until the passage of the Indian Child Welfare Act in 1978.

This doesn't seem drastically different than what was openly happening to Native Americans in the US until the passage of the Indian Child Welfare Act in 1978. By some estimates, as many as 3/4ths of Native American children were taken from their families for adoption or foster care. And that's assuming the law stopped the practice, some states still see many Native American children shipped to non-Native communities to get federal welfare money.

EdwardDiego 4y ago
Likewise, the Stolen Generation in Australia.
- lisper 4y ago
  Canada too. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/canada-apologizes-to-aboriginal-natives/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/canada-apologizes-to-aboriginal...
  - _trampeltier 4y ago
    Switzerland too https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdingkinder https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdingkinder
    - hef19898 4y ago
      Or Ireland. And just to leapfrog, Germany under multiple governments throughout history. It seems to be common practice to take children away from their families, if said families are not part of the group in power.
- aa-jv 4y ago
  See also, the White Stolen Generation, where poor mostly unmarried (Catholic) mothers were forced - across the British Empire - to send their children, never to be seen again, off to Australia. To make it white. A truly vulgar and heinous facet of Australian/British history - alongside the already heinous acts committed against the original owners.
- Tangurena2 4y ago
  Some of the "orphan trains" in US history were populated with children stolen from urban hospitals & orphanages. Poor, unwed and/or Catholic mothers were told the child was stillborn, but it was instead sent "out West" to be raised Protestant. 19th Century America was extremely anti-Catholic. Many immigrants from predominantly Catholic countries were treated as "not white" or "not white enough" and discriminated against.
- rasz 4y ago
  russia recently stole hundreds of babies from occupied territories and send them deep into their own country.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
“Openly” is probably going to throw some people off here, because it’s knowable history but not widely broadcasted or widely known. I think (and hope) your intent is to draw the parallel so similar programs targeting natives in the US (and Canada, I’ll add, they seldom diverge very far) can be viewed in the same light. I’m not adding much nuance besides noting that your wording could be misinterpreted as a dismissive “nothing new under the sun, happened openly in the US well after too” rather than what I think (and hope) you mean as a more inclusive “these programs which continued in the US very closely resemble fascist programs, and that’s important too”.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  I was saying these programs don't need to be run by fascist dictators who forged documents far away in the distant past. The democratic US either did or does the same kind of thing without that kind of deception.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    You're pointing that implication arrow the wrong way there.
    - vanderZwan 4y ago
      Could you write out the implication arrow you think you're seeing for the people who genuinely don't see anything here beyond what has been spelled out explicitly, like me? (I'm not from the US, I presume I'm missing some context)
      - Schroedingersat 4y ago
        The implication is that the USA does it and therefore it doesn't need to have fascists and eugenicists in power and can happen in a democratic country.
        4y ago
Guthur 4y ago
And similarly in Australia. The more appropriate description is taken by STATE. These and more issues come from state bureaucracies irrespective of any other trappings. Otherwise decent people will do terrible things when given a bureaucratic goal, just to achieve said goal, and then will say they were only doing their job or following orders.
- trasz 4y ago
  Where’s “state” usually means the church, with state’s approval.
  - dang 4y ago
    We've asked you more than once not to use HN for religious flamewar. If you keep doing it (and you've done it repeatedly in this thread already), we are going to have to ban you. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32279647 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32279647 https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - trasz 4y ago
      This is not flamewar. It’s not even a controversial statement. The word you are looking for is “political correctness”. I have no problem with plural “you” prohibiting easily verifiable, but politically incorrect facts, but let’s not pretend it’s something else - have some guts and explicitly write it down in site rules instead of (repeatedly) pushing bullshit like this.
      - dang 4y ago
        I don't care about the individual comment, I care about the pattern. Given that your account has had such a clear pattern of posting religious flamewar comments* that we've had to warn you multiple times in the past, and given that you were resuming that pattern several times in the current thread, it seems natural to let you know that we need you to stop posting like this and if you don't we will ban you. Re "facts": people repeat their favorite "facts" all the time to bludgeon the enemy side in whatever internet battle they're prosecuting, so the but-it's-a-fact defense doesn't hold much water. It's a red herring, which is why it's the most beloved response of trolls. There are infinitely many facts, and the choice of which ones to make explicit is always done by a person with a point of view. If you or anyone wants more explanation about this, I've posted about it many times: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20infinitely%20many%20facts&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu.... If you want to have repetitive internet wars on grand rhetorical subjects, please do it someplace else. We're trying to optimize for curiosity here. * or whatever you want to call denunciatory generic rhetoric about religion that leads other users to respond in kind and produce dumbed-down, nasty, repetitive threads
EntropyIsAHoax 4y ago
And the supreme court is set to severely weaken the Indian Child Welfare Act within the next year. We are likely to see even more native children basically kidnapped like this as a result
fsckboy 4y ago
I just read the wikipedia article about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Child_Welfare_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Child_Welfare_Act notice that it does not say that the children didn't need to be removed from their family situations, just that a new policy was put in place to place them in foster care within Native American culture, contrary to what had been happening, so the extremely high percentage of children to whom this was happening which you refer to seems to be a serious problem in its own right.

EdwardDiego 4y ago

Likewise, the Stolen Generation in Australia.

lisper 4y ago
Canada too. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/canada-apologizes-to-aboriginal-natives/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/canada-apologizes-to-aboriginal...
- _trampeltier 4y ago
  Switzerland too https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdingkinder https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdingkinder
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Or Ireland. And just to leapfrog, Germany under multiple governments throughout history. It seems to be common practice to take children away from their families, if said families are not part of the group in power.
aa-jv 4y ago
See also, the White Stolen Generation, where poor mostly unmarried (Catholic) mothers were forced - across the British Empire - to send their children, never to be seen again, off to Australia. To make it white. A truly vulgar and heinous facet of Australian/British history - alongside the already heinous acts committed against the original owners.
Tangurena2 4y ago
Some of the "orphan trains" in US history were populated with children stolen from urban hospitals & orphanages. Poor, unwed and/or Catholic mothers were told the child was stillborn, but it was instead sent "out West" to be raised Protestant. 19th Century America was extremely anti-Catholic. Many immigrants from predominantly Catholic countries were treated as "not white" or "not white enough" and discriminated against.
rasz 4y ago
russia recently stole hundreds of babies from occupied territories and send them deep into their own country.

eyelidlessness 4y ago

“Openly” is probably going to throw some people off here, because it’s knowable history but not widely broadcasted or widely known. I think (and hope) your intent is to draw the parallel so similar programs targeting natives in the US (and Canada, I’ll add, they seldom diverge very far) can be viewed in the same light. I’m not adding much nuance besides noting that your wording could be misinterpreted as a dismissive “nothing new under the sun, happened openly in the US well after too” rather than what I think (and hope) you mean as a more inclusive “these programs which continued in the US very closely resemble fascist programs, and that’s important too”.

boomboomsubban 4y ago
I was saying these programs don't need to be run by fascist dictators who forged documents far away in the distant past. The democratic US either did or does the same kind of thing without that kind of deception.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  You're pointing that implication arrow the wrong way there.
  - vanderZwan 4y ago
    Could you write out the implication arrow you think you're seeing for the people who genuinely don't see anything here beyond what has been spelled out explicitly, like me? (I'm not from the US, I presume I'm missing some context)
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      The implication is that the USA does it and therefore it doesn't need to have fascists and eugenicists in power and can happen in a democratic country.
      - 4y ago

Guthur 4y ago

And similarly in Australia. The more appropriate description is taken by STATE. These and more issues come from state bureaucracies irrespective of any other trappings. Otherwise decent people will do terrible things when given a bureaucratic goal, just to achieve said goal, and then will say they were only doing their job or following orders.

trasz 4y ago
Where’s “state” usually means the church, with state’s approval.
- dang 4y ago
  We've asked you more than once not to use HN for religious flamewar. If you keep doing it (and you've done it repeatedly in this thread already), we are going to have to ban you. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32279647 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32279647 https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - trasz 4y ago
    This is not flamewar. It’s not even a controversial statement. The word you are looking for is “political correctness”. I have no problem with plural “you” prohibiting easily verifiable, but politically incorrect facts, but let’s not pretend it’s something else - have some guts and explicitly write it down in site rules instead of (repeatedly) pushing bullshit like this.
    - dang 4y ago
      I don't care about the individual comment, I care about the pattern. Given that your account has had such a clear pattern of posting religious flamewar comments* that we've had to warn you multiple times in the past, and given that you were resuming that pattern several times in the current thread, it seems natural to let you know that we need you to stop posting like this and if you don't we will ban you. Re "facts": people repeat their favorite "facts" all the time to bludgeon the enemy side in whatever internet battle they're prosecuting, so the but-it's-a-fact defense doesn't hold much water. It's a red herring, which is why it's the most beloved response of trolls. There are infinitely many facts, and the choice of which ones to make explicit is always done by a person with a point of view. If you or anyone wants more explanation about this, I've posted about it many times: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20infinitely%20many%20facts&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu.... If you want to have repetitive internet wars on grand rhetorical subjects, please do it someplace else. We're trying to optimize for curiosity here. * or whatever you want to call denunciatory generic rhetoric about religion that leads other users to respond in kind and produce dumbed-down, nasty, repetitive threads

EntropyIsAHoax 4y ago

And the supreme court is set to severely weaken the Indian Child Welfare Act within the next year. We are likely to see even more native children basically kidnapped like this as a result

fsckboy 4y ago

I just read the wikipedia article about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Child_Welfare_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Child_Welfare_Act notice that it does not say that the children didn't need to be removed from their family situations, just that a new policy was put in place to place them in foster care within Native American culture, contrary to what had been happening, so the extremely high percentage of children to whom this was happening which you refer to seems to be a serious problem in its own right.