5 ms·

This is a step in the right direction for equitable pay. Ideally would include full compensation be posted though, stocks, etc.

tomcam 4y ago
What is equitable pay?
- whb07 4y ago
  Places swanky enough to offer stocks and benefits. The idea that all are equally lined up against the wall for quick execution. Typically happens at swanky/rich companies leading up to more “equity/inclusion” pushed down your throat.
- sneak 4y ago
  Equitable pay is pay both the employer and the employee mutually agree upon. Everything else is agenda-based.
  - pxmpxm 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure that's the point the parent was trying to illustrate. "Equitable pay" is a merely a political narrative for left leaning audiences - postmodernist talking points always require victims, after all.
    - claudiawerner 4y ago
      People have been arguing for "equitable pay" since before the word 'postmodernist' ever entered the English lexicon. In general, equitable pay for a job would entail that no two people are paid differently on the basis of certain characteristics we might deem irrelevant (and this basket of characteristics varies depending on who you ask). Further, economists, political scientists, and philosophers alike have written on the topic of what is equitable in a capitalist economy, and in terms of distributive justice; there are very few people who would define equitability as the mere existence of an agreement between parties, including the legal system (for example, some contracts can and are deemed unconscionable, and selling organs or oneself into slavery are illegal).
      - pxmpxm 4y ago
        You're conflating "equal" and "equitable". The latter of the two is along the lines of "fair" - a fully nebulous term in this context; its entire raison d'être is to push agenda narratives. The idea of equitable outcomes is a common law concept used for things like contract breach remedies, which is again something that the great-grand-parent touched up on. That is, it's an idea used for compensation when one party walks away from a mutual agreement - the logical implication is that mutual agreements are equitable, which is why compensation is needed to re-establish that state upon a breach.
        claudiawerner 4y ago
        >the logical implication is that mutual agreements are equitable But nobody uses 'equitable' in this sense, as people have a variety of reasons to engage in a mutual agreement, where upon asked one or even both parties would agree that the agreement isn't 'equitable' or fair. To say that mutual agreements are equitable is only because of the assumption that the agreement wouldn't have occured or been accepted if the agreement isn't equitable - which is obviously false, given that people agree to heavily unfair (though not unconscionable) contracts all the time.
      - tomcam 4y ago
        > no two people are paid differently on the basis of certain characteristics we might deem irrelevant Who is the “we” deeming those characteristics as relevant? This entails legislators creating a central list of job characteristics, doesn’t it?
        claudiawerner 4y ago
        I'm not (yet) talking about the law; a prerequisite to law (among other things) is rational deliberation among the members of society. The "we" is every party interested in constructing social norms.
        tomcam 4y ago
        Can you give me an example of how it would be implemented?
    - sudosysgen 4y ago
      The idea that labour has no intrinsic value beyond what the market commands is a postmodernist construct.
      - pxmpxm 4y ago
        I would posit the flip side actually, Marx's take that labor has inherent latent value, and its products are the sum of the latent value, which in no way correlates to market pricing is the type of infallible argument that postmodernism thrives on. You can spend this afternoon whittling two by fours down into toothpicks as a real world demonstration of this.
        sudosysgen 4y ago
        Marx is a modernist philosopher by definition. It seems to me you don't really understand what modernism and postmodernism is.
        pxmpxm 4y ago
        I suspect you're missing the forest for the tree, re labor theory of value.
        sudosysgen 4y ago
        I'm really not. The core of postmodernism is rejecting metanarratives. The LTV is far older than Marx and Marx was deathly opposed to the relativism and philosophical nihilism that postmodern philosophy would run with in the future. He was anything but postmodern. His arguments were classical modernist arguments modeled after Hegel.
  - tomcam 4y ago
    Isn’t all pay mutually agreed upon? No one ever forced me to take a job. In the USA that is known as slavery.
refurb 4y ago
How do you post compensation through stocks? Base salary: $150,000-$200,000 Stock compensation: $0 to >$1M Is that helpful?
- PenguinCoder 4y ago
  Absolutely. Base pay is guaranteed, and the only thing to really consider about 'money in hand'. Bonuses or stock grants _could be worth up to blah_ but could also be zero as your range mentions. So effectively, $0 until 'in hand'. Listing the base salary is immensely helpful to determine if the job is worth your time and the effort the company wants based on the JD. Problem becomes when their range starts showing BS crap like $20/k - $350k yr. That is meaningless and not helpful.

tomcam 4y ago

What is equitable pay?

whb07 4y ago
Places swanky enough to offer stocks and benefits. The idea that all are equally lined up against the wall for quick execution. Typically happens at swanky/rich companies leading up to more “equity/inclusion” pushed down your throat.
sneak 4y ago
Equitable pay is pay both the employer and the employee mutually agree upon. Everything else is agenda-based.
- pxmpxm 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure that's the point the parent was trying to illustrate. "Equitable pay" is a merely a political narrative for left leaning audiences - postmodernist talking points always require victims, after all.
  - claudiawerner 4y ago
    People have been arguing for "equitable pay" since before the word 'postmodernist' ever entered the English lexicon. In general, equitable pay for a job would entail that no two people are paid differently on the basis of certain characteristics we might deem irrelevant (and this basket of characteristics varies depending on who you ask). Further, economists, political scientists, and philosophers alike have written on the topic of what is equitable in a capitalist economy, and in terms of distributive justice; there are very few people who would define equitability as the mere existence of an agreement between parties, including the legal system (for example, some contracts can and are deemed unconscionable, and selling organs or oneself into slavery are illegal).
    - pxmpxm 4y ago
      You're conflating "equal" and "equitable". The latter of the two is along the lines of "fair" - a fully nebulous term in this context; its entire raison d'être is to push agenda narratives. The idea of equitable outcomes is a common law concept used for things like contract breach remedies, which is again something that the great-grand-parent touched up on. That is, it's an idea used for compensation when one party walks away from a mutual agreement - the logical implication is that mutual agreements are equitable, which is why compensation is needed to re-establish that state upon a breach.
      - claudiawerner 4y ago
        >the logical implication is that mutual agreements are equitable But nobody uses 'equitable' in this sense, as people have a variety of reasons to engage in a mutual agreement, where upon asked one or even both parties would agree that the agreement isn't 'equitable' or fair. To say that mutual agreements are equitable is only because of the assumption that the agreement wouldn't have occured or been accepted if the agreement isn't equitable - which is obviously false, given that people agree to heavily unfair (though not unconscionable) contracts all the time.
    - tomcam 4y ago
      > no two people are paid differently on the basis of certain characteristics we might deem irrelevant Who is the “we” deeming those characteristics as relevant? This entails legislators creating a central list of job characteristics, doesn’t it?
      - claudiawerner 4y ago
        I'm not (yet) talking about the law; a prerequisite to law (among other things) is rational deliberation among the members of society. The "we" is every party interested in constructing social norms.
        tomcam 4y ago
        Can you give me an example of how it would be implemented?
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    The idea that labour has no intrinsic value beyond what the market commands is a postmodernist construct.
    - pxmpxm 4y ago
      I would posit the flip side actually, Marx's take that labor has inherent latent value, and its products are the sum of the latent value, which in no way correlates to market pricing is the type of infallible argument that postmodernism thrives on. You can spend this afternoon whittling two by fours down into toothpicks as a real world demonstration of this.
      - sudosysgen 4y ago
        Marx is a modernist philosopher by definition. It seems to me you don't really understand what modernism and postmodernism is.
        pxmpxm 4y ago
        I suspect you're missing the forest for the tree, re labor theory of value.
        sudosysgen 4y ago
        I'm really not. The core of postmodernism is rejecting metanarratives. The LTV is far older than Marx and Marx was deathly opposed to the relativism and philosophical nihilism that postmodern philosophy would run with in the future. He was anything but postmodern. His arguments were classical modernist arguments modeled after Hegel.
- tomcam 4y ago
  Isn’t all pay mutually agreed upon? No one ever forced me to take a job. In the USA that is known as slavery.

refurb 4y ago

How do you post compensation through stocks? Base salary: $150,000-$200,000 Stock compensation: $0 to >$1M Is that helpful?

PenguinCoder 4y ago
Absolutely. Base pay is guaranteed, and the only thing to really consider about 'money in hand'. Bonuses or stock grants _could be worth up to blah_ but could also be zero as your range mentions. So effectively, $0 until 'in hand'. Listing the base salary is immensely helpful to determine if the job is worth your time and the effort the company wants based on the JD. Problem becomes when their range starts showing BS crap like $20/k - $350k yr. That is meaningless and not helpful.