4 ms·

> Residents of rural communities are “pissed off,” Weber said with her characteristic, sometimes foul-mouthed frankness. “They feel the pain that they no longer

> Residents of rural communities are “pissed off,” Weber said with her characteristic, sometimes foul-mouthed frankness. “They feel the pain that they no longer can live the life they wanted to live.” This quote makes me tremendously unsympathetic. The overwhelming majority of people have to compromise their lives in one way or another, and "have you considered living in a small town that isn't in a wildfire zone" is hardly anything compared to what some people have to deal with.

sbf501 4y ago
Remember in the 80's when republicans were aghast at musicians raising aid to help the starving people in Ethiopia, all the while screaming the Sam Kinnison line, "Nothing grows here you live in a f*king desert!!!"
- WillPostForFood 4y ago
  Remember in the 80's when republicans were aghast at musicians raising aid to help the starving people in Ethiopia No, I don't remember this. It sounds made up. Do you have a citation?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - sbf501 4y ago
    > No, I don't remember this. It sounds made up. Do you have a citation? Nope: documenting all of the awful and shitty things conservatives said on the radio wasn't a thing back then.
    - autoexec 4y ago
      You're not wrong about that. Compared to the 1980s we've got a fantastically accessible record of all kinds of political bleating. If only we were using it to hold politicians and political parties accountable. At this point they just lie straight to our faces and no one loses their careers over it, or even their supporters. Only half the country at a time even consider it a scandal and it's never the half that would have voted for the liar anyway.
      - JPKab 4y ago
        The accessible record of political bleating is compiled by partisans and selectively weaponized against the "other side". We all lose, because neither political party or their media arms have any incentive to hold their own side accountable. Partisan capture of media is a disaster. Once CNN/WaPo/NYT followed the Fox News model of catering to partisans and ideologues, things got worse. Fox News was a short term benefit to GOP, long term disaster (turned them into whacko echo chamber). Increasingly, we see this for Dems not realizing that NPR reporters aren't great proxies for working class voters (shocker).
    - refurb 4y ago
      Exactly! And you should have heard the horrible things liberals were saying back then. Truly awful, despicable things. But as you said, sorry, no sources, you'll just have to believe me.
    - masonic 4y ago
      How many Republicans can you name who were on nationwide radio in the 1980s? In other words, it was made up.
    - JPKab 4y ago
      You can't even find a single shred of evidence that "Republicans" had a problem with Live Aid. Unlike now, there wasn't an army of narcissistic, tribal losers looking to blame every problem on the other tribe. As a kid in the 80s who detested the evangelical churches I was forced to attend, one thing I do remember: Literally dozens of people in these churches were going to Ethiopia at a time, and constant food drives as well. I've been on mission trips myself to Haiti. Have you ever gone to Haiti? Have YOU ever handed out food in any third world nation? Say what you want about the evangelicals (believe me, I have more resentment than anyone), at least they actually DO stuff instead of just virtue signaling.
      - forgetbook 4y ago
        My brother in Christ working class Americans do not have the jet fuel to go to Haiti edit: tribalism has existed for all of human history as a function of brain structures older than the written word, which new thing are you referring to? edit2: what have you done for us lately? In other words, the fun part about the 80s being 20 years ago is that they were actually 40 years ago. Consider a local food drive that does not require jet fuel? You are probably surrounded by unmet need. edit3: republicans didn't include a 'moral majority' of evangelicals who openly claimed AIDS was literally an act of god in punishment of homosexuality? 1> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2007/05/07/see-aids-as-gods-punishment-for-immorality/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2007/05/07/see-aids-as... 2> https://jme.bmj.com/content/medethics/14/3/154.full.pdf https://jme.bmj.com/content/medethics/14/3/154.full.pdf 3> https://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1044&context=cedarethics https://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?ar...
      - sbf501 4y ago
        > I've been on mission trips myself to Haiti. Sounds made up. Got a citation?
        kbelder 4y ago
        Seriously? A citation that evangelical groups do charitable missions, which is common knowledge? Or a citation that the OP participated, which is unreasonable of you to ask?
  - lacker 4y ago
    Well, the line got laughs on Letterman so I'm pretty sure there were a number of people who believed it for real. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKNoJ2BzSRU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKNoJ2BzSRU No dog in this fight I just enjoy Googling things
- tomcam 4y ago
  No because that never happened.
floren 4y ago
"Have you considered moving" doesn't go over well when spoken to people getting priced out of SF. Are all people entitled to keep living in the same place indefinitely, or only some?
- lmm 4y ago
  > "Have you considered moving" doesn't go over well when spoken to people getting priced out of SF. Maybe it should do.
willidiots 4y ago
Upending your whole life and moving somewhere "safer" is no small thing, particularly when you have generational ties to the area. Doubly so when rural economies are dying, and you can't afford to move. Native Americans have lived in these places for thousands of years. Much longer than cars, industry, datacenters and their resulting climate change. I'd fault the latter for this situation, not the victims.
- danaris 4y ago
  Well, and specifically, the lack of long-standing indigenous forestry practices is a big part of what has led to this situation. Native Americans not only lived there for thousands of years, they had been doing fire mitigation for most of that time, very effectively as I understand it. Then we white people moved in, scorned their deep-rooted knowledge, and murdered most of them, so even without climate change, we'd be likely to see worse fires than a few hundred years ago.
  - forgetbook 4y ago
    I don't know anything about Native American fire mitigation practices, but wildfires did in fact occur during their lifetimes: https://journalistsresource.org/environment/long-term-perspective-wildfires-western-usa/ https://journalistsresource.org/environment/long-term-perspe... I also don't think its at all offensive to suggest someone should move. Native American tribes moved about the continent seasonally at a minimum. Most of our college students are asked to move to pursue opportunity, with the expectation that they'll be moving again for the same reason. Fleeing dangerous areas and flocking to safe ones happens in all kinds of populations for all kinds of reasons, and if this is the first time your family has been displaced across multiple generations of ties to what have been some of the most desireable locations avaliable it seems like you've been an outlier in the best way for generations.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
autoexec 4y ago
I'm not unsympathetic. Until now, Americans have done better and better with every new generation. We're not used to seeing our standard of living decline. We're very much used to always having clean water when we turn the tap, always having power when we flip a switch, always having food when we go to the store, and watching our children grow into a better life than we've had. It's going to be a long and painful process for people to realize things are changing. People are going to be very hurt and angry as it sinks in for them.

sbf501 4y ago

Remember in the 80's when republicans were aghast at musicians raising aid to help the starving people in Ethiopia, all the while screaming the Sam Kinnison line, "Nothing grows here you live in a f*king desert!!!"

WillPostForFood 4y ago
Remember in the 80's when republicans were aghast at musicians raising aid to help the starving people in Ethiopia No, I don't remember this. It sounds made up. Do you have a citation?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- sbf501 4y ago
  > No, I don't remember this. It sounds made up. Do you have a citation? Nope: documenting all of the awful and shitty things conservatives said on the radio wasn't a thing back then.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    You're not wrong about that. Compared to the 1980s we've got a fantastically accessible record of all kinds of political bleating. If only we were using it to hold politicians and political parties accountable. At this point they just lie straight to our faces and no one loses their careers over it, or even their supporters. Only half the country at a time even consider it a scandal and it's never the half that would have voted for the liar anyway.
    - JPKab 4y ago
      The accessible record of political bleating is compiled by partisans and selectively weaponized against the "other side". We all lose, because neither political party or their media arms have any incentive to hold their own side accountable. Partisan capture of media is a disaster. Once CNN/WaPo/NYT followed the Fox News model of catering to partisans and ideologues, things got worse. Fox News was a short term benefit to GOP, long term disaster (turned them into whacko echo chamber). Increasingly, we see this for Dems not realizing that NPR reporters aren't great proxies for working class voters (shocker).
  - refurb 4y ago
    Exactly! And you should have heard the horrible things liberals were saying back then. Truly awful, despicable things. But as you said, sorry, no sources, you'll just have to believe me.
  - masonic 4y ago
    How many Republicans can you name who were on nationwide radio in the 1980s? In other words, it was made up.
  - JPKab 4y ago
    You can't even find a single shred of evidence that "Republicans" had a problem with Live Aid. Unlike now, there wasn't an army of narcissistic, tribal losers looking to blame every problem on the other tribe. As a kid in the 80s who detested the evangelical churches I was forced to attend, one thing I do remember: Literally dozens of people in these churches were going to Ethiopia at a time, and constant food drives as well. I've been on mission trips myself to Haiti. Have you ever gone to Haiti? Have YOU ever handed out food in any third world nation? Say what you want about the evangelicals (believe me, I have more resentment than anyone), at least they actually DO stuff instead of just virtue signaling.
    - forgetbook 4y ago
      My brother in Christ working class Americans do not have the jet fuel to go to Haiti edit: tribalism has existed for all of human history as a function of brain structures older than the written word, which new thing are you referring to? edit2: what have you done for us lately? In other words, the fun part about the 80s being 20 years ago is that they were actually 40 years ago. Consider a local food drive that does not require jet fuel? You are probably surrounded by unmet need. edit3: republicans didn't include a 'moral majority' of evangelicals who openly claimed AIDS was literally an act of god in punishment of homosexuality? 1> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2007/05/07/see-aids-as-gods-punishment-for-immorality/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2007/05/07/see-aids-as... 2> https://jme.bmj.com/content/medethics/14/3/154.full.pdf https://jme.bmj.com/content/medethics/14/3/154.full.pdf 3> https://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1044&context=cedarethics https://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?ar...
    - sbf501 4y ago
      > I've been on mission trips myself to Haiti. Sounds made up. Got a citation?
      - kbelder 4y ago
        Seriously? A citation that evangelical groups do charitable missions, which is common knowledge? Or a citation that the OP participated, which is unreasonable of you to ask?
- lacker 4y ago
  Well, the line got laughs on Letterman so I'm pretty sure there were a number of people who believed it for real. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKNoJ2BzSRU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKNoJ2BzSRU No dog in this fight I just enjoy Googling things
tomcam 4y ago
No because that never happened.

floren 4y ago

"Have you considered moving" doesn't go over well when spoken to people getting priced out of SF. Are all people entitled to keep living in the same place indefinitely, or only some?

lmm 4y ago
> "Have you considered moving" doesn't go over well when spoken to people getting priced out of SF. Maybe it should do.

willidiots 4y ago

Upending your whole life and moving somewhere "safer" is no small thing, particularly when you have generational ties to the area. Doubly so when rural economies are dying, and you can't afford to move. Native Americans have lived in these places for thousands of years. Much longer than cars, industry, datacenters and their resulting climate change. I'd fault the latter for this situation, not the victims.

danaris 4y ago
Well, and specifically, the lack of long-standing indigenous forestry practices is a big part of what has led to this situation. Native Americans not only lived there for thousands of years, they had been doing fire mitigation for most of that time, very effectively as I understand it. Then we white people moved in, scorned their deep-rooted knowledge, and murdered most of them, so even without climate change, we'd be likely to see worse fires than a few hundred years ago.
- forgetbook 4y ago
  I don't know anything about Native American fire mitigation practices, but wildfires did in fact occur during their lifetimes: https://journalistsresource.org/environment/long-term-perspective-wildfires-western-usa/ https://journalistsresource.org/environment/long-term-perspe... I also don't think its at all offensive to suggest someone should move. Native American tribes moved about the continent seasonally at a minimum. Most of our college students are asked to move to pursue opportunity, with the expectation that they'll be moving again for the same reason. Fleeing dangerous areas and flocking to safe ones happens in all kinds of populations for all kinds of reasons, and if this is the first time your family has been displaced across multiple generations of ties to what have been some of the most desireable locations avaliable it seems like you've been an outlier in the best way for generations.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

autoexec 4y ago

I'm not unsympathetic. Until now, Americans have done better and better with every new generation. We're not used to seeing our standard of living decline. We're very much used to always having clean water when we turn the tap, always having power when we flip a switch, always having food when we go to the store, and watching our children grow into a better life than we've had. It's going to be a long and painful process for people to realize things are changing. People are going to be very hurt and angry as it sinks in for them.