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Persistence and impermanence are both what make EVE such an immense milestone in gaming. You lose a ship in battle? It's gone forever. Ferrying goods you manufa

Persistence and impermanence are both what make EVE such an immense milestone in gaming. You lose a ship in battle? It's gone forever. Ferrying goods you manufactured out of in-situ resource gathering, and a pirate ganks you at the nullsec gate? You just lost weeks worth of revenue. It's the antithesis to "it's fine I'll respawn". Everything matters, because it only exists due to players. Nothing is a given. It's a real economy with a real society. Man I miss that game.

mavu 4y ago
You know that it still runs, right? :)
- waynesonfire 4y ago
  maybe he don't.
- datameta 4y ago
  Yeah :) I unfortunately don't have the time to put into it because when I played it would completely suck me in. I have too many unfinished projects to not work on!
erwinh 4y ago
You'd think it would be the ideal candidate for nft integrations but seems their experiment with minting kill certificates on the tezos chain was short lived... https://thestackreport.xyz/dashboards/tezos/contracts/KT1WQ1HWTQEZ1tSh2VmjxJ1xJCGz7kUQp35z https://thestackreport.xyz/dashboards/tezos/contracts/KT1WQ1...
- CrazyStat 4y ago
  What benefit would NFTs provide over storing item ownership in a database, as games usually do?
  - erwinh 4y ago
    I'd say two things: 1. Proof to players that game actions are actually permanent instead of something that a server moderator can change at will. 2. A publicly accessible API layer which does not need to be paid for by the developer* that can be used for community-driven plugins & third-party integrations, guild & tournament websites etc. (*because it is paid for by transaction fees)
    - CrazyStat 4y ago
      You're not making a very convincing case. (1) Unless the server itself is running on the blockchain, which is impractical for anything like Eve, nothing stops the server owner from ignoring what the blockchain says about ownership and changing things at will. (2) This is just externalizing costs incredibly inefficiently. The blockchain transaction fees will necessarily be greater than the costs of simple database storage, probably by several orders of magnitude based on current implementations. Eve already provides a fairly full-featured API [1], so this would provide little to no benefit at exponentially increased cost. [1] https://esi.evetech.net/ui/ https://esi.evetech.net/ui/
    - db48x 4y ago
      Nfts are unnecessary. You can get those benefits with just boring old PKI.
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      1. Trading card game leagues that have banned cards you purchased and irrefutably own because you have it in your hand would like a word
  - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
    Nothing. It's not like game developers are going to implement NFTs from other developers' games into their own, that's work.
    - IntelMiner 4y ago
      Not even that it's work. It makes zero sense on multiple levels NFT's are a waste of time and the sooner they die out like the digital beanie baby fad they are the better
- JCharante 4y ago
  It would not, it takes new players months to get to 1 billion in-game currency while it takes veterans logging in for a few minutes to do that. A friend has reached 1 trillion in net worth after playing for 2 years (I only reached 300b before realizing I should grind IRL instead of in-game, but I had an operation that made it somewhat easy to gain 50B/month). So if I can sell my 50B per month for like $100 or $200 I'd probably do it (because if you're lucky in market speculation you can make way more) So what about new players? Eve is a zero-sum game. You take resources and other players can't use it anymore. Imagine playing a game that emphasis that you can sell items for real world money but playing for a year would only get you $10 or less.
  - tedivm 4y ago
    Eve Online isn't zero-sum, it's a semi-managed economy where resources are balanced by a team of actual economists. The goal of the company isn't perfect economics either- it's about getting as many players as possible. There are a lot of levers the company can use to move that economy. For base resources they can spawn more resources in easier to access areas, for items they can release more through their NPC traders or increase drop rates. Even outside of that there are a lot of aspects that aren't zero sum. There are more resources in the game, by far, than are currently mined. As new players enter the game then more resources start flowing through the economy as a result. The only resource that is really limited is territory, but even that has been increased over time (such as when wormholes were introduced).
    - CrazyStat 4y ago
      There are, as far as I know, no economists at CCP anymore. They had one economist for a number of years but he left somewhere around 5-7 years ago.
    - JCharante 4y ago
      It's zero sum for the lucritive activities. Wanna go ratting? Oh the BRM tanked because someone else uses the same system. Wanna go after npc sotiyos? There's a monopoly on them and your alliance probably has deals with the guy involved in RMT Wanna go hauling? You hunt for public contracts against other haulers or join a private company and someone takes all the lucritive stuff. Or you have to compete to be the hauling company for your null-sec alliance Wanna manufacture? Someone else started manufacturing the same ship and tanked the market Wanna do reactions? The index is going up and taxes are eating into your profits because someone started using the same system as you. Wanna mine r64s? Yeah so do other players. It's a race to get there and the guy multiboxing 30 hulks is hogging it all. If you want to liquidate an investment you have to becareful with not crashing the market. And then someone else just dumped all their Isogen on the market so your net worth just got a big haircut. Almost everything other players do are hurting you. Yeah there's unlimited npc missions which give low isk rewards, but for the good stuff there's always competition.

mavu 4y ago

You know that it still runs, right? :)

waynesonfire 4y ago
maybe he don't.
datameta 4y ago
Yeah :) I unfortunately don't have the time to put into it because when I played it would completely suck me in. I have too many unfinished projects to not work on!

erwinh 4y ago

You'd think it would be the ideal candidate for nft integrations but seems their experiment with minting kill certificates on the tezos chain was short lived... https://thestackreport.xyz/dashboards/tezos/contracts/KT1WQ1HWTQEZ1tSh2VmjxJ1xJCGz7kUQp35z https://thestackreport.xyz/dashboards/tezos/contracts/KT1WQ1...

CrazyStat 4y ago
What benefit would NFTs provide over storing item ownership in a database, as games usually do?
- erwinh 4y ago
  I'd say two things: 1. Proof to players that game actions are actually permanent instead of something that a server moderator can change at will. 2. A publicly accessible API layer which does not need to be paid for by the developer* that can be used for community-driven plugins & third-party integrations, guild & tournament websites etc. (*because it is paid for by transaction fees)
  - CrazyStat 4y ago
    You're not making a very convincing case. (1) Unless the server itself is running on the blockchain, which is impractical for anything like Eve, nothing stops the server owner from ignoring what the blockchain says about ownership and changing things at will. (2) This is just externalizing costs incredibly inefficiently. The blockchain transaction fees will necessarily be greater than the costs of simple database storage, probably by several orders of magnitude based on current implementations. Eve already provides a fairly full-featured API [1], so this would provide little to no benefit at exponentially increased cost. [1] https://esi.evetech.net/ui/ https://esi.evetech.net/ui/
  - db48x 4y ago
    Nfts are unnecessary. You can get those benefits with just boring old PKI.
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    1. Trading card game leagues that have banned cards you purchased and irrefutably own because you have it in your hand would like a word
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  Nothing. It's not like game developers are going to implement NFTs from other developers' games into their own, that's work.
  - IntelMiner 4y ago
    Not even that it's work. It makes zero sense on multiple levels NFT's are a waste of time and the sooner they die out like the digital beanie baby fad they are the better
JCharante 4y ago
It would not, it takes new players months to get to 1 billion in-game currency while it takes veterans logging in for a few minutes to do that. A friend has reached 1 trillion in net worth after playing for 2 years (I only reached 300b before realizing I should grind IRL instead of in-game, but I had an operation that made it somewhat easy to gain 50B/month). So if I can sell my 50B per month for like $100 or $200 I'd probably do it (because if you're lucky in market speculation you can make way more) So what about new players? Eve is a zero-sum game. You take resources and other players can't use it anymore. Imagine playing a game that emphasis that you can sell items for real world money but playing for a year would only get you $10 or less.
- tedivm 4y ago
  Eve Online isn't zero-sum, it's a semi-managed economy where resources are balanced by a team of actual economists. The goal of the company isn't perfect economics either- it's about getting as many players as possible. There are a lot of levers the company can use to move that economy. For base resources they can spawn more resources in easier to access areas, for items they can release more through their NPC traders or increase drop rates. Even outside of that there are a lot of aspects that aren't zero sum. There are more resources in the game, by far, than are currently mined. As new players enter the game then more resources start flowing through the economy as a result. The only resource that is really limited is territory, but even that has been increased over time (such as when wormholes were introduced).
  - CrazyStat 4y ago
    There are, as far as I know, no economists at CCP anymore. They had one economist for a number of years but he left somewhere around 5-7 years ago.
  - JCharante 4y ago
    It's zero sum for the lucritive activities. Wanna go ratting? Oh the BRM tanked because someone else uses the same system. Wanna go after npc sotiyos? There's a monopoly on them and your alliance probably has deals with the guy involved in RMT Wanna go hauling? You hunt for public contracts against other haulers or join a private company and someone takes all the lucritive stuff. Or you have to compete to be the hauling company for your null-sec alliance Wanna manufacture? Someone else started manufacturing the same ship and tanked the market Wanna do reactions? The index is going up and taxes are eating into your profits because someone started using the same system as you. Wanna mine r64s? Yeah so do other players. It's a race to get there and the guy multiboxing 30 hulks is hogging it all. If you want to liquidate an investment you have to becareful with not crashing the market. And then someone else just dumped all their Isogen on the market so your net worth just got a big haircut. Almost everything other players do are hurting you. Yeah there's unlimited npc missions which give low isk rewards, but for the good stuff there's always competition.