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This is amazing. I wanted to add one thing. I noticed after reading the full blog post, and scanning through all the HN comments here, that there has been act

This is amazing. I wanted to add one thing. I noticed after reading the full blog post, and scanning through all the HN comments here, that there has been actually no mention, as far as I can tell, from any parties involved, or even any commenters, of any intention to make a police report. Now, I understand not trusting the police, and often it's more trouble than it's worth to deal with them. But this is a situation involving identity theft, which is a very serious crime. I realized that this is an international situation and the local police probably cannot do much, but at some level of policing, be it the FBI or even at the international level, this feels like something that should be reported. Even if nothing can be done, in the worst case it's useful that the police be made aware of new trends in identity theft; in the best case, they will be caught. These people are organized to perform identity theft, which is literally organized crime -- I hope they are aware of the risk they are taking doing this. Lastly, unrelated to the above, but just a random social aspect of this; it's clearly an interesting and unexpected result of location-based pay. The only reason I can think of that a group of people would organize something like this is because pretending to be native English speakers and presumably pretending to be US- or Europe-based will automatically get them a higher pay scale. (If I understand correctly, they are possibly a team of programmers in some other country, and are offering to actually do the work, but just pretending to be other people while doing it in order to get a higher paycheck.) Not making any judgement here regarding location-based pay, although that's an interesting discussion for another thread, but in today's remote work environment, new kinds of fraud are definitely an interesting consequence to be on the lookout for. Fascinating, and dangerous.

jstarfish 4y ago
You vastly overestimate the degree to which the police give a shit. Unless there's an actual financial loss or threat to life, they don't care. This barely qualifies as identity theft anyway; it's attempted fraud. They won't take a report of your phone number being spoofed, but they'll deploy SWAT teams to unsuspecting houses at the word of bored teenagers. Do you know the imposter's actual identity? What would you even report? If the perpetrator is international, what are your local police even supposed to do with this information? You might have a little better luck with the FBI, but if you don't show up with hard evidence (i.e. do all the work for them), you won't get anywhere with them either. All of this goes to show you why this sort of scheme remains successful. Nobody cares. Fraud is just an assumed risk.
- toss1 4y ago
  Yes, the police are definitely the wrong group, as their jurisdiction is just local or state, and almost none would have much a clue of how to proceed. However, the FBI might be very interested. While these situations may be just be a couple of friends scamming, it could also be the tip of the iceberg of an organized crime operation or an espionage operation. Many countries are actively working to get inside American corporations to steal both their technology and anything related to any govt work and secrets. There is not much better way to gain access to the network than to be able to login as an employee. Even if that one case alone isn't that interesting to them, having the data may very well help crack a much more important NatSec case. Gather the info and report it.
- radarsat1 4y ago
  I understand. But you don't really know if you don't even try to report it. And on this case.. I mean, this has to do with taking in income while posing as someone else, which ultimately affects the IRS, so I suspect there might be more interest at the FBI level than you think. But who knows. I'd be curious to know how common this is / is becoming. It's certainly novel to me.
  - jstarfish 4y ago
    If you still have faith in the system, more power to you. You seem to think all these three-letter agencies exist to help each other. I shared your optimism before I started having to deal with them on a professional basis. The most the FBI will do with such reports is, if substantive enough, occasionally tip off industry partners to current trends from two years ago. Useful intel, but woefully outdated. The hardest part is even getting them to listen to you in the first place-- you need to bring them hard evidence and facts. Like taking on sprint tasks you know you can't achieve, they will not take on cases that cannot be resolved.
  - viridian 4y ago
    I really doubt they care, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze for them. Its an incredibly difficult crime to prosecute for, even if the people were operating in the US, which they almost certainly are not. They really only care about the highest of high people cyber crimes (silkroad, anontalk, lulzsec, etc), because it takes a dozen or more agents months to years to resolve a single one. Generally when it comes to this sort of stuff, if you cant hand them all the evidence with a bow on it, they don't care unless it involves an imminent terror attack, or major drug/CSAM ring. This doesn't just apply to us average joes either, every cop I know (so, 3) who has ever tried to pass something they viewed as important to the feds, has been stiff armed and told that it's not a priority.
entwife 4y ago
I was going to comment about a police report, but largely because it might be useful for an insurance policy that covers identity theft.
braingenious 4y ago
>These people are organized to perform identity theft, which is literally organized crime This seems hyperbolic (though not impossible.) If I were to attempt this scheme, would I have created an organized crime entity? I think this whole thing is a novel example of grift, which is by definition bad. The idea of every bad act being turned into an excuse to necessitate federal police action is… weird.
- radarsat1 4y ago
  You don't think this is a crime? I mean, IANAL but I'm pretty sure taking in income while posing as someone else must constitute a crime. If not, lesson learned I guess. (Don't know unless you talk to a lawyer or try to report it.) But if it is a crime, then yes, it's across state and national boundaries, so who else would have jurisdiction but federal police?
  - braingenious 4y ago
    I was talking about organized crime. If you break into a car while your buddy keeps watch, have you created a criminal enterprise worthy of being compared to mafias and terrorist groups? If so, what is meaningful about the concept of organized crime as it is currently used and accepted? Are you aware that there are non-federal police that have the purview of arresting little mom and pop criminal enterprises? Not everything is an automatic RICO case.
    - radarsat1 4y ago
      > If you break into a car while your buddy keeps watch But we are talking about a case where someone has created a company that they are using to perform this fraud. If you found a company where you hire individuals to watch each other while they break into cars, yes, I think that would be considered organized crime.

jstarfish 4y ago

You vastly overestimate the degree to which the police give a shit. Unless there's an actual financial loss or threat to life, they don't care. This barely qualifies as identity theft anyway; it's attempted fraud. They won't take a report of your phone number being spoofed, but they'll deploy SWAT teams to unsuspecting houses at the word of bored teenagers. Do you know the imposter's actual identity? What would you even report? If the perpetrator is international, what are your local police even supposed to do with this information? You might have a little better luck with the FBI, but if you don't show up with hard evidence (i.e. do all the work for them), you won't get anywhere with them either. All of this goes to show you why this sort of scheme remains successful. Nobody cares. Fraud is just an assumed risk.

toss1 4y ago
Yes, the police are definitely the wrong group, as their jurisdiction is just local or state, and almost none would have much a clue of how to proceed. However, the FBI might be very interested. While these situations may be just be a couple of friends scamming, it could also be the tip of the iceberg of an organized crime operation or an espionage operation. Many countries are actively working to get inside American corporations to steal both their technology and anything related to any govt work and secrets. There is not much better way to gain access to the network than to be able to login as an employee. Even if that one case alone isn't that interesting to them, having the data may very well help crack a much more important NatSec case. Gather the info and report it.
radarsat1 4y ago
I understand. But you don't really know if you don't even try to report it. And on this case.. I mean, this has to do with taking in income while posing as someone else, which ultimately affects the IRS, so I suspect there might be more interest at the FBI level than you think. But who knows. I'd be curious to know how common this is / is becoming. It's certainly novel to me.
- jstarfish 4y ago
  If you still have faith in the system, more power to you. You seem to think all these three-letter agencies exist to help each other. I shared your optimism before I started having to deal with them on a professional basis. The most the FBI will do with such reports is, if substantive enough, occasionally tip off industry partners to current trends from two years ago. Useful intel, but woefully outdated. The hardest part is even getting them to listen to you in the first place-- you need to bring them hard evidence and facts. Like taking on sprint tasks you know you can't achieve, they will not take on cases that cannot be resolved.
- viridian 4y ago
  I really doubt they care, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze for them. Its an incredibly difficult crime to prosecute for, even if the people were operating in the US, which they almost certainly are not. They really only care about the highest of high people cyber crimes (silkroad, anontalk, lulzsec, etc), because it takes a dozen or more agents months to years to resolve a single one. Generally when it comes to this sort of stuff, if you cant hand them all the evidence with a bow on it, they don't care unless it involves an imminent terror attack, or major drug/CSAM ring. This doesn't just apply to us average joes either, every cop I know (so, 3) who has ever tried to pass something they viewed as important to the feds, has been stiff armed and told that it's not a priority.

entwife 4y ago

I was going to comment about a police report, but largely because it might be useful for an insurance policy that covers identity theft.

braingenious 4y ago

>These people are organized to perform identity theft, which is literally organized crime This seems hyperbolic (though not impossible.) If I were to attempt this scheme, would I have created an organized crime entity? I think this whole thing is a novel example of grift, which is by definition bad. The idea of every bad act being turned into an excuse to necessitate federal police action is… weird.

radarsat1 4y ago
You don't think this is a crime? I mean, IANAL but I'm pretty sure taking in income while posing as someone else must constitute a crime. If not, lesson learned I guess. (Don't know unless you talk to a lawyer or try to report it.) But if it is a crime, then yes, it's across state and national boundaries, so who else would have jurisdiction but federal police?
- braingenious 4y ago
  I was talking about organized crime. If you break into a car while your buddy keeps watch, have you created a criminal enterprise worthy of being compared to mafias and terrorist groups? If so, what is meaningful about the concept of organized crime as it is currently used and accepted? Are you aware that there are non-federal police that have the purview of arresting little mom and pop criminal enterprises? Not everything is an automatic RICO case.
  - radarsat1 4y ago
    > If you break into a car while your buddy keeps watch But we are talking about a case where someone has created a company that they are using to perform this fraud. If you found a company where you hire individuals to watch each other while they break into cars, yes, I think that would be considered organized crime.