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Since your comment is only tangential to the story, it feels like this is something you just wanted to get off your chest. But now that we're here, let's explor

by Meekro 4y ago

Since your comment is only tangential to the story, it feels like this is something you just wanted to get off your chest. But now that we're here, let's explore it further: what kinds of changes would satisfy you? If it's about making it easier to invest in the stock market, then what's so hard about it now? Lots of non-rich people are in it now (especially if you count retirement funds), and investing in index funds is an easy way to get a historically reliable 8% return. If it's about rich people not paying their fair share of taxes, then how much would be enough? Is it a certain percentage, or a certain compliance rate, or just until you stop hearing from the New York Times about how this-or-that company is paying too little? By the way, if it's about this, I'd encourage you to make friends with a company owner in the $1-10 million per year range. Ask them about how much tax they pay, and how much time and money they spend on compliance. Ask how their tax rate compares to their secretary. You were kind of vague, so I'm only guessing here-- apologies if I'm way off the mark!

xapata 4y ago
> I'd encourage you to make friends with a company owner in the $1-10 million per year range. To be fair to the person you replied to, I think we can assume this kind of company was not the category they were thinking of. Many companies with less than $10 million annual revenue are struggling to stay afloat.
- Meekro 4y ago
  I think that's fair. Still feels like it's not the real problem, though. GP says "most people feel they are getting screwed" -- I don't think improving Amazon's tax compliance (to quote another commenter who replied to me) is going to change that. Even if a new-and-improved IRS could force Amazon and its ilk into 100% compliance, I'm pretty sure everyone would feel just as screwed as they do now.
  - xapata 4y ago
    > most people feel they are getting screwed For a moment, I had trouble remembering whether that assertion was in the context of getting screwed by the government or by freeloaders. I think to avoid people feeling screwed, we'd need to focus the conversation on what people receive from the government rather than what they or others give.
mw888 4y ago
Now quell our concerns with the same rhetoricals but in the top 0.1% range, like for, say, Amazon.
- Meekro 4y ago
  The top 0.1%? You are never going to beat them, and you know it. They will ignore or sidestep your laws, and most of the time they'll get away with it. This will, occasionally, produce a left-wing movement and sweep some politicians into power. They'll come in with a popular mandate, and they'll pass some laws or restructure the IRS or something. Five years later, that top 0.1% will still be dodging taxes. Naturally, not a single one of them will have been held accountable or gone to jail. However, the resources provided by the popular movement will have been used to audit and harass the $1-10 million businesses and individuals. Some of them will have been cheating a little. Maybe a personal vacation deducted as a business expense -- stuff like that. Nothing compared to what Amazon is doing, of course. But they'll be audited, and they'll be nailed. Most of them will may a major fine. A few will do 1-3 years in a Federal minimum security prison. Or maybe they'll catch a grandma who inherited a European bank account from her family. She didn't dodge any taxes, but she didn't know that she was supposed to report that account every year on a special form. When she later amends her filings to comply with the law, they'll take her amended filing as a confession and nail her for $2 million, or half the value of the account. [1] But forget about her, it's time to hire another 87,000 IRS agents. Does anyone really think they'll be used to go after Amazon? [1] https://ij.org/case/foreign-bank-account-fines/ https://ij.org/case/foreign-bank-account-fines/

by Meekro 4y ago

xapata 4y ago

> I'd encourage you to make friends with a company owner in the $1-10 million per year range. To be fair to the person you replied to, I think we can assume this kind of company was not the category they were thinking of. Many companies with less than $10 million annual revenue are struggling to stay afloat.

Meekro 4y ago
I think that's fair. Still feels like it's not the real problem, though. GP says "most people feel they are getting screwed" -- I don't think improving Amazon's tax compliance (to quote another commenter who replied to me) is going to change that. Even if a new-and-improved IRS could force Amazon and its ilk into 100% compliance, I'm pretty sure everyone would feel just as screwed as they do now.
- xapata 4y ago
  > most people feel they are getting screwed For a moment, I had trouble remembering whether that assertion was in the context of getting screwed by the government or by freeloaders. I think to avoid people feeling screwed, we'd need to focus the conversation on what people receive from the government rather than what they or others give.

mw888 4y ago

Now quell our concerns with the same rhetoricals but in the top 0.1% range, like for, say, Amazon.

Meekro 4y ago
The top 0.1%? You are never going to beat them, and you know it. They will ignore or sidestep your laws, and most of the time they'll get away with it. This will, occasionally, produce a left-wing movement and sweep some politicians into power. They'll come in with a popular mandate, and they'll pass some laws or restructure the IRS or something. Five years later, that top 0.1% will still be dodging taxes. Naturally, not a single one of them will have been held accountable or gone to jail. However, the resources provided by the popular movement will have been used to audit and harass the $1-10 million businesses and individuals. Some of them will have been cheating a little. Maybe a personal vacation deducted as a business expense -- stuff like that. Nothing compared to what Amazon is doing, of course. But they'll be audited, and they'll be nailed. Most of them will may a major fine. A few will do 1-3 years in a Federal minimum security prison. Or maybe they'll catch a grandma who inherited a European bank account from her family. She didn't dodge any taxes, but she didn't know that she was supposed to report that account every year on a special form. When she later amends her filings to comply with the law, they'll take her amended filing as a confession and nail her for $2 million, or half the value of the account. [1] But forget about her, it's time to hire another 87,000 IRS agents. Does anyone really think they'll be used to go after Amazon? [1] https://ij.org/case/foreign-bank-account-fines/ https://ij.org/case/foreign-bank-account-fines/