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Did Amazon make a deal with Firefox to send all browsing DNS lookups to them without asking end users? Is Amazon trying to encourage people to use DNS-over-htt

Did Amazon make a deal with Firefox to send all browsing DNS lookups to them without asking end users? Is Amazon trying to encourage people to use DNS-over-https with specious claims that your ISP is evil, but of course Cloudflare is not, without telling us that DoH takes control away from us so we can't block ads or otherwise decide what we want to allow or block? Is Amazon trying to push everything through just a handful of IPs so that people can't block nefarious content without also blocking legitimate content? If everyone were on-board with what Cloudflare wants, the Internet would be re-centralized around them, and because they don't "host" (which is a special kind of bullshit) and they don't "censor", bad actors will have free reign, so long as Cloudflare is making $$$.

majke 4y ago
> If everyone were on-board with what Cloudflare wants, the Internet would be... You got me lost here. Cloudflare is making money by having everyone re-centralized around it? Where is the revenue from?
- johnklos 4y ago
  Not sure if you're trolling here, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is a legitimate question. People asked the same about Facebook and Google. Monopolies can extract money from all sorts of things that appear to not necessarily directly generate revenue. What happens when all the large players are using Cloudflare? They become a monopoly. Businesses small and large can't afford to not use them, because businesses don't want to give the appearance of being at a disadvantage. DDoS gangs will extort money from the holdouts, and it'll just become what businesses use. Cloudflare already has a problem where they block large portions of the Internet and either make it so their access to Cloudflare hosted sites either has to go through CAPTCHAs or outright are blocked. If this starts happening to large ISPs, they'll be in a position where they, the ISPs, will be expected to solve problems of Cloudflare's creation. I bet there'll be paid programs for ISPs where ISPs pay for the privilege to correspond with Cloudflare, agree to be "good" (Cloudflare's definition of good), and will suffer financially (because their traffic will be marginalized) if they don't agree to whatever Cloudflare wants. We're seeing the pieces being assembled now.

majke 4y ago

> If everyone were on-board with what Cloudflare wants, the Internet would be... You got me lost here. Cloudflare is making money by having everyone re-centralized around it? Where is the revenue from?

johnklos 4y ago
Not sure if you're trolling here, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is a legitimate question. People asked the same about Facebook and Google. Monopolies can extract money from all sorts of things that appear to not necessarily directly generate revenue. What happens when all the large players are using Cloudflare? They become a monopoly. Businesses small and large can't afford to not use them, because businesses don't want to give the appearance of being at a disadvantage. DDoS gangs will extort money from the holdouts, and it'll just become what businesses use. Cloudflare already has a problem where they block large portions of the Internet and either make it so their access to Cloudflare hosted sites either has to go through CAPTCHAs or outright are blocked. If this starts happening to large ISPs, they'll be in a position where they, the ISPs, will be expected to solve problems of Cloudflare's creation. I bet there'll be paid programs for ISPs where ISPs pay for the privilege to correspond with Cloudflare, agree to be "good" (Cloudflare's definition of good), and will suffer financially (because their traffic will be marginalized) if they don't agree to whatever Cloudflare wants. We're seeing the pieces being assembled now.