7 ms·

I think this is a sign that Microsoft sees the writing on the wall. There will be a day when Windows is left behind, and they want to make sure that they can c

by dmayle 4y ago

I think this is a sign that Microsoft sees the writing on the wall. There will be a day when Windows is left behind, and they want to make sure that they can continue to deliver the Microsoft experience, even on other platforms.

guhidalg 4y ago
I don’t think Windows is ever going to be left behind, you still need a kernel to make use of all your hardware and an OS to give users something to do. I view this move as Microsoft recognizing that the future of most development is cross-platform web technologies and they need to give Windows users reasons not to migrate to macOS and ChromeOS (though it’s ok if they do as long as they’re paying for O365 and Azure).
- ieegdiuf 4y ago
- smoldesu 4y ago
  I think you're right, but that also poses the possibility that Windows will get left behind, as a kernel. If the future of development happens on the web, the significance of Windows as a kernel is going to greatly diminish. We've already reverse-engineered a huge amount of Windows API calls, and you can run vast amounts of fairly complex Windows software without the NT kernel at all. If our future does shift towards thin-clients and web-browsers, MacOS and Windows will make increasingly less sense. Both OSes have a pretty significant amount of cruft and unjustified overhead which already seems unnecessary to a generation of Google Docs and Soundcloud users.
  - FpUser 4y ago
    >"If our future does shift towards thin-clients and web-browsers" Please no. I like to control what I have. No way for me to be fed by thin client. Sure I do not mind web apps / services where it makes sense (banking for example). But the possibility to be suddenly cut off for whatever reason (maybe my app provider does not like my political views) - fuck that. Or when everything goes through some portal what will prohibit from them jacking up subscription fees sky high? I understand by many developers wanting to use webapp hummer for everything but I think they're digging their own grave
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Those problems are also realistically an issue for native apps. The internet is your distribution platform regardless of if the web is your target. I would hope that the industry could work together to provide a comfortable cross-platform app development experience, but none of the big players bought-in. So now the web is our only option, and they're the ones to blame.
      - FpUser 4y ago
        For what it is worth I distribute my products from my company's website. However little reputation I have is all mine. It does not depend on some portal. The revenue is all mine as well. Besides those products are heavy apps that use features not accessible from non native apps.
    - amadeuspagel 4y ago
      I don't see how an offline-first browser app is worse then a native app in terms of control.
      - FpUser 4y ago
        My answer was in particular to: "If our future does shift towards thin-clients and web-browsers". Thin client leaves processing to a server. It does not matter in this case if your "offline-first" UI is resident / cached on a client side. These are just glorified web bookmarks
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  > I don’t think Windows is ever going to be left behind I do, but not for reasons most people think about. The Windows 11 UI/UX is trying to emulate MacOS. Clearly, Microsoft is giving the finger to people that use Windows because it's not MacOS. I can't wait for Windows 12 to happen and all the UX things I hate about MacOS get implemented in Windows. Might as well start training my muscle memory to hit the Windows key instead of CTRL now, so that when Microsoft decides that CTRL-X/C/V should be WIN-X/C/V, I'll be ready. Or maybe I'll just switch to Linux. In either case, I'll leave Windows behind.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - com2kid 4y ago
    Few years back everyone was complaining Apple was copying Microsoft by going all in on flat UIs. While at MS I did run into the ever present problem of many designers only using MacOS so their designs would basically say "do what MacOS does!"[1] which entailed a lot of work by developers to change the default Windows UI widget behaviors to look like MacOS. Thankfully when I got one of those requests across my desk I was able to point and shout at MS's design language rules and say no. :/ [1] I don't think it was on purpose, I just think many designers have never used anything else and they didn't even realize other UIs exist outside of MacOS and iPhones. These problems started popping up when MS loosened up on their rules about only using MS products for development, it was a needed change but ugh, UX designers and their MacBooks...
    - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
      I can't stand flat UIs. Not having buttons be obviously clickable/touchable is a bug, not a feature, as is having UI elements blend in with each other. I personally use WindowBlinds to make my Windows 10 UI look like Windows 2000. I love having a taskbar that has 3D buttons. I like not having multiple windows from a single program getting grouped together. Windows 2000 (or Windows XP with the Classic theme enabled) was the best UI Windows ever had. It's been downhill ever since.
- patmorgan23 4y ago
  Windows isn't the only kernel and it's not a huge part of Micrsofts revenue
echelon 4y ago
I think this is the wrong take. Microsoft is trying to land on the PWA beachhead in an attempt to make mobile devices irrelevant and app agnostic. Furthermore, they want to provide the tooling to develop and deploy into this ecosystem. Github, Github CI, VSCode, Azure, ...
- pjmlp 4y ago
  They have been at it for as long as MSHTML exists, in various kinds of packaging. Check Active Desktop, HTA, WinJS,...
binkHN 4y ago
I have to agree with this. Many Win32 things are disappearing, Azure is running on Linux and Microsoft is porting their major Win32 cash cow services to run on Linux as well.
- xcrunner529 4y ago
  Azure runs on Windows and Hyper-V
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by dmayle 4y ago

guhidalg 4y ago

I don’t think Windows is ever going to be left behind, you still need a kernel to make use of all your hardware and an OS to give users something to do. I view this move as Microsoft recognizing that the future of most development is cross-platform web technologies and they need to give Windows users reasons not to migrate to macOS and ChromeOS (though it’s ok if they do as long as they’re paying for O365 and Azure).

ieegdiuf 4y ago
smoldesu 4y ago
I think you're right, but that also poses the possibility that Windows will get left behind, as a kernel. If the future of development happens on the web, the significance of Windows as a kernel is going to greatly diminish. We've already reverse-engineered a huge amount of Windows API calls, and you can run vast amounts of fairly complex Windows software without the NT kernel at all. If our future does shift towards thin-clients and web-browsers, MacOS and Windows will make increasingly less sense. Both OSes have a pretty significant amount of cruft and unjustified overhead which already seems unnecessary to a generation of Google Docs and Soundcloud users.
- FpUser 4y ago
  >"If our future does shift towards thin-clients and web-browsers" Please no. I like to control what I have. No way for me to be fed by thin client. Sure I do not mind web apps / services where it makes sense (banking for example). But the possibility to be suddenly cut off for whatever reason (maybe my app provider does not like my political views) - fuck that. Or when everything goes through some portal what will prohibit from them jacking up subscription fees sky high? I understand by many developers wanting to use webapp hummer for everything but I think they're digging their own grave
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Those problems are also realistically an issue for native apps. The internet is your distribution platform regardless of if the web is your target. I would hope that the industry could work together to provide a comfortable cross-platform app development experience, but none of the big players bought-in. So now the web is our only option, and they're the ones to blame.
    - FpUser 4y ago
      For what it is worth I distribute my products from my company's website. However little reputation I have is all mine. It does not depend on some portal. The revenue is all mine as well. Besides those products are heavy apps that use features not accessible from non native apps.
  - amadeuspagel 4y ago
    I don't see how an offline-first browser app is worse then a native app in terms of control.
    - FpUser 4y ago
      My answer was in particular to: "If our future does shift towards thin-clients and web-browsers". Thin client leaves processing to a server. It does not matter in this case if your "offline-first" UI is resident / cached on a client side. These are just glorified web bookmarks
Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
> I don’t think Windows is ever going to be left behind I do, but not for reasons most people think about. The Windows 11 UI/UX is trying to emulate MacOS. Clearly, Microsoft is giving the finger to people that use Windows because it's not MacOS. I can't wait for Windows 12 to happen and all the UX things I hate about MacOS get implemented in Windows. Might as well start training my muscle memory to hit the Windows key instead of CTRL now, so that when Microsoft decides that CTRL-X/C/V should be WIN-X/C/V, I'll be ready. Or maybe I'll just switch to Linux. In either case, I'll leave Windows behind.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- com2kid 4y ago
  Few years back everyone was complaining Apple was copying Microsoft by going all in on flat UIs. While at MS I did run into the ever present problem of many designers only using MacOS so their designs would basically say "do what MacOS does!"[1] which entailed a lot of work by developers to change the default Windows UI widget behaviors to look like MacOS. Thankfully when I got one of those requests across my desk I was able to point and shout at MS's design language rules and say no. :/ [1] I don't think it was on purpose, I just think many designers have never used anything else and they didn't even realize other UIs exist outside of MacOS and iPhones. These problems started popping up when MS loosened up on their rules about only using MS products for development, it was a needed change but ugh, UX designers and their MacBooks...
  - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
    I can't stand flat UIs. Not having buttons be obviously clickable/touchable is a bug, not a feature, as is having UI elements blend in with each other. I personally use WindowBlinds to make my Windows 10 UI look like Windows 2000. I love having a taskbar that has 3D buttons. I like not having multiple windows from a single program getting grouped together. Windows 2000 (or Windows XP with the Classic theme enabled) was the best UI Windows ever had. It's been downhill ever since.
patmorgan23 4y ago
Windows isn't the only kernel and it's not a huge part of Micrsofts revenue

echelon 4y ago

I think this is the wrong take. Microsoft is trying to land on the PWA beachhead in an attempt to make mobile devices irrelevant and app agnostic. Furthermore, they want to provide the tooling to develop and deploy into this ecosystem. Github, Github CI, VSCode, Azure, ...

pjmlp 4y ago
They have been at it for as long as MSHTML exists, in various kinds of packaging. Check Active Desktop, HTA, WinJS,...

binkHN 4y ago

I have to agree with this. Many Win32 things are disappearing, Azure is running on Linux and Microsoft is porting their major Win32 cash cow services to run on Linux as well.

xcrunner529 4y ago
Azure runs on Windows and Hyper-V

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]