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I wouldn't say that this is a operation for global hegemony or energy dominance. It's simply about preserving political influence in Europe. Unfortunately, I mu

I wouldn't say that this is a operation for global hegemony or energy dominance. It's simply about preserving political influence in Europe. Unfortunately, I must say, Europe/the EU is not capable of a proper geopolitical strategy. Europe would easily be annihilated by Russian psyops, so in all that misery this brings to the alliance, it's still net positive.

morpheos137 4y ago
From an EU perspective why would peace and trade with Russia be so bad? Clearly US psyops are stronger than anything Russia puts out because EU governments have been persuaded to participate in a crusade in Ukraine against their own economic self interests. Making the EU kowtow to America may be in American interests but it certainly is not in EU interests. I am not sure when this myth of Russia psyop dominance came from. Only seemed to become a thing after Hillary lost the election and Brexit. More likely source of blame for that falls on endogenous populism in reaction to economic and social changes in the last decade or two. Russia was not responsible for bailing out western banks while real wages stagnated and also was not responsible for widespread immigration and others consequences of globalisation and conflict in the middle east and Africa. Reality does not correspond to the social media mythology that Russia has some how infiltrated western politics at a significant scale.
- gocartStatue 4y ago
  Why would doing business with dangerous psychopath be so bad? After all, we’d just continuously give him money and depend on his services for our wellbeing, choosing to ignore that he kills „some less important people way east”. Nothing to see here.
  - morpheos137 4y ago
    Maybe the less important people should recognise that they are less important and make peace with their powerful neighbor? When did Ukrainian interests exactly correspond to EU interests? Governments are not charities. What is so important about Ukraine that Germany and France need to suffer for it? Didn't German voters elect their government to put German interests first?
    - gocartStatue 4y ago
      I am speechless. That is the most cynical approach I’ve ever seen. Makes me kinda happy that Germany is loosing its power in EU with every passing day of this war.
    - semiquaver 4y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain
- throwaway29812 4y ago
  > From an EU perspective why would peace and trade with Russia be so bad? Because Russia every once in a while invades a part of Europe to carve off territory for itself, then holds the rest of the continent hostage by withholding gas during the freezing winter. Why would you want peace with a country that is just biding its time before it starts it's next war?
  - morpheos137 4y ago
    Every once and while? When was the last time Russia invaded the EU?
    - throwaway29812 4y ago
      I didn't say the EU, which has a collective defense treaty similar to that of NATO. I said Europe. And to answer that question: 2014, Ukraine 2008, Georgia 1992, Moldova and Romania And of course the Soviet Union invading, occupying and brutally oppressing half of Europe after WW2 (including several countries now in the EU and NATO). Or have you forgotten? They haven't.
      - morpheos137 4y ago
        Well for starters Georgia is not in Europe. It is in asia. I am not sure what you mean about 1992. If Moldova can be independent why not Transinistra? Ukraine was subject to a coup and civil war. Right or wrong reacting to a coup is not the same as an unprovoked invasion.
        semiquaver 4y ago
        > Ukraine was subject to a coup and civil war. Until this line it wasn’t clear whether you were deluded or actively pushing propaganda. Thanks for clearing that up.
        throwaway29812 4y ago

morpheos137 4y ago

From an EU perspective why would peace and trade with Russia be so bad? Clearly US psyops are stronger than anything Russia puts out because EU governments have been persuaded to participate in a crusade in Ukraine against their own economic self interests. Making the EU kowtow to America may be in American interests but it certainly is not in EU interests. I am not sure when this myth of Russia psyop dominance came from. Only seemed to become a thing after Hillary lost the election and Brexit. More likely source of blame for that falls on endogenous populism in reaction to economic and social changes in the last decade or two. Russia was not responsible for bailing out western banks while real wages stagnated and also was not responsible for widespread immigration and others consequences of globalisation and conflict in the middle east and Africa. Reality does not correspond to the social media mythology that Russia has some how infiltrated western politics at a significant scale.

gocartStatue 4y ago
Why would doing business with dangerous psychopath be so bad? After all, we’d just continuously give him money and depend on his services for our wellbeing, choosing to ignore that he kills „some less important people way east”. Nothing to see here.
- morpheos137 4y ago
  Maybe the less important people should recognise that they are less important and make peace with their powerful neighbor? When did Ukrainian interests exactly correspond to EU interests? Governments are not charities. What is so important about Ukraine that Germany and France need to suffer for it? Didn't German voters elect their government to put German interests first?
  - gocartStatue 4y ago
    I am speechless. That is the most cynical approach I’ve ever seen. Makes me kinda happy that Germany is loosing its power in EU with every passing day of this war.
  - semiquaver 4y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neville_Chamberlain
throwaway29812 4y ago
> From an EU perspective why would peace and trade with Russia be so bad? Because Russia every once in a while invades a part of Europe to carve off territory for itself, then holds the rest of the continent hostage by withholding gas during the freezing winter. Why would you want peace with a country that is just biding its time before it starts it's next war?
- morpheos137 4y ago
  Every once and while? When was the last time Russia invaded the EU?
  - throwaway29812 4y ago
    I didn't say the EU, which has a collective defense treaty similar to that of NATO. I said Europe. And to answer that question: 2014, Ukraine 2008, Georgia 1992, Moldova and Romania And of course the Soviet Union invading, occupying and brutally oppressing half of Europe after WW2 (including several countries now in the EU and NATO). Or have you forgotten? They haven't.
    - morpheos137 4y ago
      Well for starters Georgia is not in Europe. It is in asia. I am not sure what you mean about 1992. If Moldova can be independent why not Transinistra? Ukraine was subject to a coup and civil war. Right or wrong reacting to a coup is not the same as an unprovoked invasion.
      - semiquaver 4y ago
        > Ukraine was subject to a coup and civil war. Until this line it wasn’t clear whether you were deluded or actively pushing propaganda. Thanks for clearing that up.
        throwaway29812 4y ago