5 ms·

Browsers were able to fight window.open popups back in the day by intercepting/blocking the window.open API. This was, iirc, one of the killer features of firef

Browsers were able to fight window.open popups back in the day by intercepting/blocking the window.open API. This was, iirc, one of the killer features of firefox back in the day. But cat and mouse: websites are now abusing CSS to recreate the popup experience. Bookmarklets like this are helpful (and this is a great successor), but bookmarklets are very difficult to install and use for the average internet user. I could not figure out how to install this on my iPhone without using desktop Safari to sync bookmarks. Is there any hope of browsers being able to combat popup modals and other sticky gross things in an automated (and on by default) way that doesn't totally break sites that require sticky items for navigation or other, non-hostile features?

aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
One way or another, the endgame is going to be websites which are nothing but a fullscreen WebGL canvas driven by webassembly. Things will steadily devolve for users from that point. Then we’ll need about ten years for the next generation of hypermedia to surface, which hopefully won’t have Turing-complete scripting on principle. But I’m not sure whether developers are smart enough to avoid repeating the same mistakes again and again…
- aendruk 4y ago
  That may just be the day I stop using the web. I can picture it now: Me, neo-luddite, weathered and bitter, strung between the maw of capitalism and the precious tranquility of my crafted world.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    At least you'll be safe from the blipverts.
- postalrat 4y ago
  Why a canvas with webassembly? Just a single video element with everything rendered on the server gives them the most control.
  - aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
    Stadia and GeForce Now already does this. But I don't think this will be the business model of the Web at large. Server costs would be too high. Webassembly blobs with WebGL gives you the sweet spot by offloading the compute cost to the user while stripping them practically all of their freedoms.
- dreamcompiler 4y ago
  That already happened with Flash. It took 20 years to kill it but it's finally dead.
  - userbinator 4y ago
    ...and now its replacement is back with a vengeance. At least when Flash was common, full-Flash sites were not really as common as JS-only SPAs today, and it was easy to just block embedded plugins by default and only enable when necessary for some particular interactive element. In other words, plugins provided a clear separation between the "document browser" and the "very interactive", but with today's "JS everywhere", that distinction is getting more blurred and difficult to tease apart.
aendruk 4y ago
There’s a motion to add first class support for in-page popups. Ironically that could take us back to the good old days of having a consistent target to block. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32599583 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32599583
- dreamcompiler 4y ago
  I've often wondered if just blocking everything on the page with z-index>0 would work. I will eventually get around to trying it.
- heliophobicdude 4y ago
  I think it’s coming in Chrome 106 https://developer.chrome.com/blog/new-in-chrome-106/#popup-api https://developer.chrome.com/blog/new-in-chrome-106/#popup-a...
farisjarrah 4y ago
You can add this on iphone by adding another webpage as a bookmark using the share menu in safari and then going back and editing the bookmark so its what you want it to be.
Nextgrid 4y ago
The problem is not technical - there's already a supercharged version of the old popup blocker: uBlock Origin, and it is permissively licensed such that any browser can embed it by default. The problem is commercial - companies that make browsers have gone all-in on "growth & engagement" and the "attention economy" and rely on the web being terrible to make their money, either directly (Google, Edge) or indirectly (Mozilla, funded by Google and thus unlikely to bite the hand that feeds). Browser makers have given up on serving their users because it turns out you make more money by exploiting them.

aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago

One way or another, the endgame is going to be websites which are nothing but a fullscreen WebGL canvas driven by webassembly. Things will steadily devolve for users from that point. Then we’ll need about ten years for the next generation of hypermedia to surface, which hopefully won’t have Turing-complete scripting on principle. But I’m not sure whether developers are smart enough to avoid repeating the same mistakes again and again…

aendruk 4y ago
That may just be the day I stop using the web. I can picture it now: Me, neo-luddite, weathered and bitter, strung between the maw of capitalism and the precious tranquility of my crafted world.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  At least you'll be safe from the blipverts.
postalrat 4y ago
Why a canvas with webassembly? Just a single video element with everything rendered on the server gives them the most control.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
  Stadia and GeForce Now already does this. But I don't think this will be the business model of the Web at large. Server costs would be too high. Webassembly blobs with WebGL gives you the sweet spot by offloading the compute cost to the user while stripping them practically all of their freedoms.
dreamcompiler 4y ago
That already happened with Flash. It took 20 years to kill it but it's finally dead.
- userbinator 4y ago
  ...and now its replacement is back with a vengeance. At least when Flash was common, full-Flash sites were not really as common as JS-only SPAs today, and it was easy to just block embedded plugins by default and only enable when necessary for some particular interactive element. In other words, plugins provided a clear separation between the "document browser" and the "very interactive", but with today's "JS everywhere", that distinction is getting more blurred and difficult to tease apart.

aendruk 4y ago

There’s a motion to add first class support for in-page popups. Ironically that could take us back to the good old days of having a consistent target to block. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32599583 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32599583

dreamcompiler 4y ago
I've often wondered if just blocking everything on the page with z-index>0 would work. I will eventually get around to trying it.
heliophobicdude 4y ago
I think it’s coming in Chrome 106 https://developer.chrome.com/blog/new-in-chrome-106/#popup-api https://developer.chrome.com/blog/new-in-chrome-106/#popup-a...

farisjarrah 4y ago

You can add this on iphone by adding another webpage as a bookmark using the share menu in safari and then going back and editing the bookmark so its what you want it to be.

Nextgrid 4y ago

The problem is not technical - there's already a supercharged version of the old popup blocker: uBlock Origin, and it is permissively licensed such that any browser can embed it by default. The problem is commercial - companies that make browsers have gone all-in on "growth & engagement" and the "attention economy" and rely on the web being terrible to make their money, either directly (Google, Edge) or indirectly (Mozilla, funded by Google and thus unlikely to bite the hand that feeds). Browser makers have given up on serving their users because it turns out you make more money by exploiting them.