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I wonder if someone more informed could help me understand Telegram's business model, as I don't think I could rightly describe the startup and product in a way

I wonder if someone more informed could help me understand Telegram's business model, as I don't think I could rightly describe the startup and product in a way that wouldn't sound like I was casting aspersions. Why would anyone use Telegram over something end to end encrypted, like Signal, Matrix, WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, etc.?

mr_mitm 4y ago
It has features that regular users really, really like. Not having to associate the account with a phone number, scheduled messages, groups/channels with thousands of users, the ability to program bots, silent messages, editable messages, ... Some people care more about these than security or privacy. It's that simple. As for monetization, I believe they have premium stickers and such.
- godelski 4y ago
  I think the irony is that so many attack Signal for pursuing more features. While they aren't features I personally care about I do recognize that I can't have secure communications with people that are unwilling to use secure means of messaging. While I want anonymous identities (not actually usernames akin to what we have here) I do think the social graph is far more important. Not that you can't work on both at the same time (though Telegram and WA have significantly more developers)
orangepurple 4y ago
- glintik 4y ago
  «The Russian government hates him too.» Telegram is one of few popular messengers that are NOT blocked/prohibited in Russia. So government and Durov have some agreement.
  - orangepurple 4y ago
    Russia’s main security agency, the FSB (a successor to the KGB) has branded Telegram the messenger of choice for “international terrorist organizations in Russia.” The government’s first attempts to ban it, a year ago, resulted in entire sections of the web, online stores, services—even the Kremlin museum’s ticket sales—being inadvertently blocked. But the messaging app has adopted a clever system of changing IP addresses that currently outsmarts the government ban. Meanwhile, users have continued to access Telegram through VPNs, or virtual private networks, which have become increasingly popular. It is difficult or impossible to block Telegram in Russia. https://decrypt.co/6454/russia-internet-ban-block-telegram-messaging-app-durov https://decrypt.co/6454/russia-internet-ban-block-telegram-m...
    - staticassertion 4y ago
      > Russia’s main security agency, the FSB (a successor to the KGB) has branded Telegram the messenger of choice for “international terrorist organizations in Russia.” You ever hear of ANoM?
    - glintik 4y ago
      I live there, buddy. Telegram was blocked many times. But after some time any attempts were stopped. Just think about why.
- godelski 4y ago
  > Wouldn't be shocked at all if Moxie is part of the Mossad. Hacker News is not the place to spread conspiracy theories. If you have compelling evidence, link it. If not, keep it to yourself. > Signal is suffocated by Moxie's tyranny. Good news, Moxie hasn't been with Signal for at least 9 months.
  - comboy 4y ago
    Hey, I'd love to hear that one. Moxie has been around for a long time. If somebody has rationalizations for everything he released broken and talked about in context of being part of Mossad that should be a fun read.
neongreen 4y ago
I’ve tried all of the apps you listed and they all have significantly less polished UX, except perhaps for Messenger. In an alternative universe, I could very well be using Messenger. My personal assessment is that if you have to communicate something that must not ever leak out, you shouldn’t use a chat app at all, period — because in many many cases my interlocutor is less careful than I am (or their degree of carefulness is unknown). You can use an E2E video app but not a chat app. Telegram’s video is E2E. If my entire Telegram history leaks out, I estimate that I’ll be in a bit of trouble, but not significant trouble. Of course, I might be wrong. In fact, while writing this comment I realized that the risk is probably somewhat bigger than I think it is, and in an ideal world using E2E would be advisable. However, this isn’t “why you should use Telegram” but rather “why do you use Telegram”, so this is why I use it — significantly better UX, partly network effect, and partly that leaking my entire history is not even in the top 100 worries I have in life.
yazzku 4y ago
Network effects too. Telegram is big in Europe.

mr_mitm 4y ago

It has features that regular users really, really like. Not having to associate the account with a phone number, scheduled messages, groups/channels with thousands of users, the ability to program bots, silent messages, editable messages, ... Some people care more about these than security or privacy. It's that simple. As for monetization, I believe they have premium stickers and such.

godelski 4y ago
I think the irony is that so many attack Signal for pursuing more features. While they aren't features I personally care about I do recognize that I can't have secure communications with people that are unwilling to use secure means of messaging. While I want anonymous identities (not actually usernames akin to what we have here) I do think the social graph is far more important. Not that you can't work on both at the same time (though Telegram and WA have significantly more developers)

orangepurple 4y ago

glintik 4y ago
«The Russian government hates him too.» Telegram is one of few popular messengers that are NOT blocked/prohibited in Russia. So government and Durov have some agreement.
- orangepurple 4y ago
  Russia’s main security agency, the FSB (a successor to the KGB) has branded Telegram the messenger of choice for “international terrorist organizations in Russia.” The government’s first attempts to ban it, a year ago, resulted in entire sections of the web, online stores, services—even the Kremlin museum’s ticket sales—being inadvertently blocked. But the messaging app has adopted a clever system of changing IP addresses that currently outsmarts the government ban. Meanwhile, users have continued to access Telegram through VPNs, or virtual private networks, which have become increasingly popular. It is difficult or impossible to block Telegram in Russia. https://decrypt.co/6454/russia-internet-ban-block-telegram-messaging-app-durov https://decrypt.co/6454/russia-internet-ban-block-telegram-m...
  - staticassertion 4y ago
    > Russia’s main security agency, the FSB (a successor to the KGB) has branded Telegram the messenger of choice for “international terrorist organizations in Russia.” You ever hear of ANoM?
  - glintik 4y ago
    I live there, buddy. Telegram was blocked many times. But after some time any attempts were stopped. Just think about why.
godelski 4y ago
> Wouldn't be shocked at all if Moxie is part of the Mossad. Hacker News is not the place to spread conspiracy theories. If you have compelling evidence, link it. If not, keep it to yourself. > Signal is suffocated by Moxie's tyranny. Good news, Moxie hasn't been with Signal for at least 9 months.
- comboy 4y ago
  Hey, I'd love to hear that one. Moxie has been around for a long time. If somebody has rationalizations for everything he released broken and talked about in context of being part of Mossad that should be a fun read.

neongreen 4y ago

I’ve tried all of the apps you listed and they all have significantly less polished UX, except perhaps for Messenger. In an alternative universe, I could very well be using Messenger. My personal assessment is that if you have to communicate something that must not ever leak out, you shouldn’t use a chat app at all, period — because in many many cases my interlocutor is less careful than I am (or their degree of carefulness is unknown). You can use an E2E video app but not a chat app. Telegram’s video is E2E. If my entire Telegram history leaks out, I estimate that I’ll be in a bit of trouble, but not significant trouble. Of course, I might be wrong. In fact, while writing this comment I realized that the risk is probably somewhat bigger than I think it is, and in an ideal world using E2E would be advisable. However, this isn’t “why you should use Telegram” but rather “why do you use Telegram”, so this is why I use it — significantly better UX, partly network effect, and partly that leaking my entire history is not even in the top 100 worries I have in life.

yazzku 4y ago

Network effects too. Telegram is big in Europe.