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> The argument being they don't need the original and could make a near perfect copy with 3D printing and display that. Well, also the argument that they were

> The argument being they don't need the original and could make a near perfect copy with 3D printing and display that. Well, also the argument that they were looted and stolen in the first place.

adastra22 4y ago
It’s a controversial argument. Many of the chief pieces on display were officially purchased from the country in question.
- suzzer99 4y ago
  Just like a lot of land in the United States was purchased from some Native American chief who may have been bought off, or under duress to save his tribe.
  - adastra22 4y ago
    So can we reverse any trade because X centuries down the road we don’t like the outcome? I said it was controversial, not wrong. There are two sides to the argument.
    - Thrymr 4y ago
      Specifically, the Rosetta stone was looted by the French during Napoleon's invasion of Egypt, and then carted away by the British after they defeated the French. There are two sides to this, but none of them are Egyptian.
      - ourmandave 4y ago
        No, the Egyptians want their shit back.
        gherkinnn 4y ago
        Who are the Egyptians? The Arabs got there in 700AD, long after the Rosetta Stone had been engraved. Remnants of the Copts perhaps? Maybe the Greeks want a piece of it too. And it was Napoleon who found it, so surely Corsica has a claim as well. You have to tie yourself in to all sorts of knots to untangle this Ship of Theseus. And while where at it, all filth of Roman, Norse, Anglo-Saxon, and Norman descent better fuck out of GB. It belongs to the Celts and I want my Gaelic back.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        KoftaBob 4y ago
        As somewhat of an aside from the debate on giving back artifacts, I have a fun fact: The Coptic Christians of Egypt and the Muslims of Egypt are largely the same ethnic/genetic group. Modern day Muslim Egyptians are descendants of Coptic Egyptians who converted to Islam at some point after the Arabs conquered Egypt. One of the (many) interesting things about Egypt is that despite being conquered by several foreign empires, their genetic/ethnic makeup has stayed largely consistent, with only minor intermixing from those foreign groups.
        krapp 4y ago
        So "Egyptians" don't even really exist, but "the British" absolutely, unequivocally, 100% do, and the latter claim to the Rosetta stone is ironclad and irrefutable, whereas the former is basically fantasy. Shit like this is the reason half the world danced when the Queen died, you know.
        jl6 4y ago
        It really is an oversimplification to apply modern standards of property ownership to this situation. Egyptian history, like most history, is the story of might-makes-right usurpation. It’s easy to paint the French rediscoverers as looters, but the Ottoman administration they took the stone from were not exactly what we would call the rightful rulers either. Is it part of the cultural heritage of the Egyptian peoples? Yes, sort of, and that’s what makes it complicated. I say sort of because the cultural continuity from the stone’s origin to 1799 is somewhat suspect - the stone was being used as building material, with no recognized historic value. Hieroglyphics had been utterly forgotten. So yes, it is part of Egyptian history, but it’s also part of French and British history. It’s complicated.
    - suzzer99 4y ago
      The point is just because someone in some position of authority (who may have been motivated by greed or fear) at one time agreed to sell off land or precious artifacts, that may not make it right to keep them.
      - MomoXenosaga 4y ago
        Greed and fear are part of the human condition. Every piece of land on this planet exchanged hands a hundred times under those terms so I wonder how far you want to go back. The native Americans also had their tribal wars although that seems to be memory holed by liberals.
        suzzer99 4y ago
        Sure. That still doesn't make it right, or mean that we can't even acknowledge the theft. There are plenty of cases where the US just flat out broke treaties, or bribed one chief to sell off his whole tribe's land when it wasn't even clear he had that authority. Even if he did, there's a moral issue about taking the land that way. And if none of those strategies worked, sometimes the settlers would just kill everyone in the indigenous village: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnadenhutten_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnadenhutten_massacre Manhattan Beach, CA stole a piece of land from a black family through eminent domain in the early 20th Century. They just recently made things right and came to a settlement with the family. Better late than never.
- ourmandave 4y ago
  Every piece has it's own story and a lot of research has to go into each one.
poulpy123 4y ago
The Rosetta stone was looted from the French. The French invaded Egypt but didn't loot the Rosetta stone, it was just a rock used for a wall in a fort they were reinforcing. Egypt at the time was part of the ottoman empire. Egypt at the time of the Rosetta stone was Greek. The Greeks conquered it from a Persian empire. Neither Egypt now or Egypt in the 1800 are the Egypt of the time of Rosetta stone. So who should the real owner of the stone ?

> The argument being they don't need the original and could make a near perfect copy with 3D printing and display that. Well, also the argument that they were looted and stolen in the first place.

adastra22 4y ago

It’s a controversial argument. Many of the chief pieces on display were officially purchased from the country in question.

suzzer99 4y ago
Just like a lot of land in the United States was purchased from some Native American chief who may have been bought off, or under duress to save his tribe.
- adastra22 4y ago
  So can we reverse any trade because X centuries down the road we don’t like the outcome? I said it was controversial, not wrong. There are two sides to the argument.
  - Thrymr 4y ago
    Specifically, the Rosetta stone was looted by the French during Napoleon's invasion of Egypt, and then carted away by the British after they defeated the French. There are two sides to this, but none of them are Egyptian.
    - ourmandave 4y ago
      No, the Egyptians want their shit back.
      - gherkinnn 4y ago
        Who are the Egyptians? The Arabs got there in 700AD, long after the Rosetta Stone had been engraved. Remnants of the Copts perhaps? Maybe the Greeks want a piece of it too. And it was Napoleon who found it, so surely Corsica has a claim as well. You have to tie yourself in to all sorts of knots to untangle this Ship of Theseus. And while where at it, all filth of Roman, Norse, Anglo-Saxon, and Norman descent better fuck out of GB. It belongs to the Celts and I want my Gaelic back.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        KoftaBob 4y ago
        As somewhat of an aside from the debate on giving back artifacts, I have a fun fact: The Coptic Christians of Egypt and the Muslims of Egypt are largely the same ethnic/genetic group. Modern day Muslim Egyptians are descendants of Coptic Egyptians who converted to Islam at some point after the Arabs conquered Egypt. One of the (many) interesting things about Egypt is that despite being conquered by several foreign empires, their genetic/ethnic makeup has stayed largely consistent, with only minor intermixing from those foreign groups.
        krapp 4y ago
        So "Egyptians" don't even really exist, but "the British" absolutely, unequivocally, 100% do, and the latter claim to the Rosetta stone is ironclad and irrefutable, whereas the former is basically fantasy. Shit like this is the reason half the world danced when the Queen died, you know.
      - jl6 4y ago
        It really is an oversimplification to apply modern standards of property ownership to this situation. Egyptian history, like most history, is the story of might-makes-right usurpation. It’s easy to paint the French rediscoverers as looters, but the Ottoman administration they took the stone from were not exactly what we would call the rightful rulers either. Is it part of the cultural heritage of the Egyptian peoples? Yes, sort of, and that’s what makes it complicated. I say sort of because the cultural continuity from the stone’s origin to 1799 is somewhat suspect - the stone was being used as building material, with no recognized historic value. Hieroglyphics had been utterly forgotten. So yes, it is part of Egyptian history, but it’s also part of French and British history. It’s complicated.
  - suzzer99 4y ago
    The point is just because someone in some position of authority (who may have been motivated by greed or fear) at one time agreed to sell off land or precious artifacts, that may not make it right to keep them.
    - MomoXenosaga 4y ago
      Greed and fear are part of the human condition. Every piece of land on this planet exchanged hands a hundred times under those terms so I wonder how far you want to go back. The native Americans also had their tribal wars although that seems to be memory holed by liberals.
      - suzzer99 4y ago
        Sure. That still doesn't make it right, or mean that we can't even acknowledge the theft. There are plenty of cases where the US just flat out broke treaties, or bribed one chief to sell off his whole tribe's land when it wasn't even clear he had that authority. Even if he did, there's a moral issue about taking the land that way. And if none of those strategies worked, sometimes the settlers would just kill everyone in the indigenous village: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnadenhutten_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnadenhutten_massacre Manhattan Beach, CA stole a piece of land from a black family through eminent domain in the early 20th Century. They just recently made things right and came to a settlement with the family. Better late than never.
ourmandave 4y ago
Every piece has it's own story and a lot of research has to go into each one.

poulpy123 4y ago

The Rosetta stone was looted from the French. The French invaded Egypt but didn't loot the Rosetta stone, it was just a rock used for a wall in a fort they were reinforcing. Egypt at the time was part of the ottoman empire. Egypt at the time of the Rosetta stone was Greek. The Greeks conquered it from a Persian empire. Neither Egypt now or Egypt in the 1800 are the Egypt of the time of Rosetta stone. So who should the real owner of the stone ?