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What other effective means? The USA already imposed direct sanctions on Germany to try and stop Nord Stream 2 from being built, a very hostile move that suppose

What other effective means? The USA already imposed direct sanctions on Germany to try and stop Nord Stream 2 from being built, a very hostile move that supposedly resulted in 'incomprehension' in the German Foreign Office. It didn't work. Nowhere near (re-)opening: we don't really know this. The Greens are loud and extreme (saying they don't care how much pain Germans suffer) but we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. USA spies on all the European countries all the time and obviously Russia too, so they presumably have better insight into the true state of German decision making than we do here on HN. It's possible they got some intel that was interpreted as meaning that they were getting close to re-opening NS1 or open NS2 and decided to act before that was possible. There's also some evidence that this may have been planned for a long time, in which case it would again make no sense to be Russia. Way back in 2015 an underwater robot laden with explosives was found next to the NS pipelines by Swedish special forces: https://www.pipeline-journal.net/news/explosive-laden-drone-found-near-nord-stream-pipeline https://www.pipeline-journal.net/news/explosive-laden-drone-... Who was opposed to NS in 2015? Only the USA. But it gets worse :( In August the US Navy entered the area right next to where the explosions happened and then switched off their identification transponders: https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/schleswig-holstein/US-Navy-zeigt-Flagge-in-der-oestlichen-Ostsee,usnavy102.html https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/schleswig-holstein/US-Navy-ze... (auto translation) "A total of 4,000 US soldiers, helicopter pilots, marines, doctors and strategists are on their way east. At around 6 a.m. on Wednesday morning, the association had already passed the Danish island of Bornholm, when the Americans switched off their automatic ship identification systems (AIS) and could no longer be located without further ado." It seems to me like this is going to immediately turn into another COVID lab leak problem where the media and governments go into overdrive to bury the most obvious and straightforward explanation. Give it 24 hours and linking to the articles I just showed you will be banned on Twitter/Facebook and anyone saying "the USA is the most obvious suspect" will be banned from YouTube. Then maybe in three years suddenly it'll become acceptable to talk about.

trasz 4y ago
USA being the obvious suspect would only be a problem if people believed this to be a bad thing. I’m from Poland, Europe, and I’m really happy about those pipelines exploding, because it clears a major strategic problem, and I suspect there are more people who feel this way.
- sam_lowry_ 4y ago
  What about the environmental damage?
  - 0x457 4y ago
    Well, it's bad. Whatever US president a says to reporters doesn't change the fact that US government doesn't care much about pollution when it comes to national security. - https://earth.org/us-military-pollution/ https://earth.org/us-military-pollution/ - https://www.ewg.org/research/decades-department-defense-knew-firefighting-foams-forever-chemicals-were-dangerous https://www.ewg.org/research/decades-department-defense-knew...
  - trasz 4y ago
    Do we know how much damage it is causing? I mean, I’m assuming Russians are no longer pumping the gas; what’s the volume of that pipe?
- origin_path 4y ago
  It's reasonable to believe that if the USA has done this, the political destabilization that could occur from people realizing that America had engaged in an unprovoked act of war directly against supposed "allies", knowing full well the consequences might conceivably be people freezing to death and/or rolling blackouts that destroy their economy, would be far more important. If you want to see the rise of explicitly anti-American politicians in Europe then that would be an excellent way to do it. Look at it this way - how do you think Biden would react if Germany mined a US LNG port? Also, you're aware that the current situation threatens supply in the UK too, right?
  - trasz 4y ago
    Nobody is going to freeze - even before war Russia was at most about 30% of gas imports; now it’s much less (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-27/europe-is-ready-for-a-winter-without-russian-gas-bnef-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-27/europe-is...), and those two pipelines were unused anyway. The only risk is the raising gas prices will make the industry less competitive over the winter - but it’s small fries compared to COVID. What it does is fixing a major strategic problem of Germany being blackmailed by Russia - a problem which endangered entire Europe. It also makes it impossible for Russia to route gas around Ukraine - which differently to EU countries could then freeze.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

trasz 4y ago

USA being the obvious suspect would only be a problem if people believed this to be a bad thing. I’m from Poland, Europe, and I’m really happy about those pipelines exploding, because it clears a major strategic problem, and I suspect there are more people who feel this way.

sam_lowry_ 4y ago
What about the environmental damage?
- 0x457 4y ago
  Well, it's bad. Whatever US president a says to reporters doesn't change the fact that US government doesn't care much about pollution when it comes to national security. - https://earth.org/us-military-pollution/ https://earth.org/us-military-pollution/ - https://www.ewg.org/research/decades-department-defense-knew-firefighting-foams-forever-chemicals-were-dangerous https://www.ewg.org/research/decades-department-defense-knew...
- trasz 4y ago
  Do we know how much damage it is causing? I mean, I’m assuming Russians are no longer pumping the gas; what’s the volume of that pipe?
origin_path 4y ago
It's reasonable to believe that if the USA has done this, the political destabilization that could occur from people realizing that America had engaged in an unprovoked act of war directly against supposed "allies", knowing full well the consequences might conceivably be people freezing to death and/or rolling blackouts that destroy their economy, would be far more important. If you want to see the rise of explicitly anti-American politicians in Europe then that would be an excellent way to do it. Look at it this way - how do you think Biden would react if Germany mined a US LNG port? Also, you're aware that the current situation threatens supply in the UK too, right?
- trasz 4y ago
  Nobody is going to freeze - even before war Russia was at most about 30% of gas imports; now it’s much less (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-27/europe-is-ready-for-a-winter-without-russian-gas-bnef-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-27/europe-is...), and those two pipelines were unused anyway. The only risk is the raising gas prices will make the industry less competitive over the winter - but it’s small fries compared to COVID. What it does is fixing a major strategic problem of Germany being blackmailed by Russia - a problem which endangered entire Europe. It also makes it impossible for Russia to route gas around Ukraine - which differently to EU countries could then freeze.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]