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Story from a local school: Parents of the more advanced math students in the grade requested some sort of more advanced math opportunities for their kids. Scho

by bnralt 4y ago

Story from a local school: Parents of the more advanced math students in the grade requested some sort of more advanced math opportunities for their kids. School didn't provide any. When several of the kids used a more advanced math concept they had learned outside of school to solve a problem, the teacher told them to not do it that way because they hadn't learned it yet. The school does provide extra classes for kids who they think are behind in one area or another. And if a kid has a lot of issues, a class will even get an extra teacher that just focuses on that kid. Children who perform below grade level or have issues are getting extra attention from the school (great), but children who already know what's being taught are expected to just sit there quietly and waste their time (not so great).

WalterBright 4y ago
Note the contrast between that and the athletic department, where schools are absolutely delighted to get a kid with an aptitude for sport, and push him hard to achieve.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  Art classes seem the same, art and music teachers always seem eager to give special attention to kids who do much better than their peers.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    Of course. Very few teachers take any interest in the students who do well in math. In fact, they'll often find them annoying. Yes, there are some teachers who do take an interest and do their best for those students. They just aren't the norm, and they don't get much support from the administration.
    - HarryHirsch 4y ago
      Only in America, but that's because the math teachers are nitwits.
  - bitwize 4y ago
    Art and music programs are being cut to free up funding to ensure all the kids pass the standardized tests so the school doesn't lose NCLB funding.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      American public schools are generously funded. https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-education-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-ed...
- e_i_pi_2 4y ago
  I think the big difference here is that it doesn't really matter if someone isn't athletic. A school can have 10 kids for an amazing basketball team and 990 that are terrible at basketball and it doesn't affect anything, but if you have 10 geniuses and 990 kids that can't read then it's a huge negative for society
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    > it doesn't really matter if someone isn't athletic Tell that to people who faked athletic credentials to get into the college of their choice. Or who get in with full academic scholarships because they're good at football. I'm not advocating ignoring 990 kids that can't read, not at all. What I am suggesting is ignoring the 10 geniuses and not taking advantage of them is both unfair and bad for society. Consider that WW1 and WW2 were won in large part by smart people making more effective weapons. You see the same thing in the Ukraine war today. Failing to nurture the 10 geniuses is a very bad idea.
    - mediumiqsad 4y ago
      Most of those people would not be considered geniuses to Caltech educated elites like you. I personally think ignoring the top 10 students is perfectly fine because they can clearly already manage. The rest of us can’t, but are still considered subhuman by your Bell Curve reading ilk.
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        In most larger universities, you can get an elite education by carefully selecting which courses to take. 1. take the honors track 2. 90% of the classes should be STEM 3. the STEM classes should be heavy on the math 4. avoid classes the stoners and cheaters take 5. classes should entail 2-3 hours of work for every hour of lecture 6. work towards getting As, not just passing 7. don't cheat, you'll be sorry if you do 8. be prepared to work your ass off
        mediumiqsad 4y ago
- ras3022 4y ago
  Unless of course you have a school with a math department and a math team that competes. Across American I'm sure it's the exception, and not the rule, to have a math department and a math team. But in California, especially the Bay Area, they're not uncommon. All the public high schools, and many of the middle schools, in my city have them. Private schools will vary based on their priorities.
babyshake 4y ago
> When several of the kids used a more advanced math concept they had learned outside of school to solve a problem, the teacher told them to not do it that way because they hadn't learned it yet. This is nothing new. Most teachers are more concerned with being able to manage their classes than they are with outcomes for individual students.
- e_i_pi_2 4y ago
  This also seems to be for the sake of the teachers. There's a bunch of different methods to do math problems, and they're supposed to grade both the method and the result. It's way easier if everyone is using the same method than to allow everyone to make their own. As a straw-man example - you could come up with a more advanced way to format your essay and maybe write it in a new language you learned, but if the teacher can't understand it then it doesn't really fulfill the requirements of the assignment. The "new math" thing also isn't anything new, there's a song about it from 1965 and another from 2009 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math_(song) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math_(song)

by bnralt 4y ago

WalterBright 4y ago

Note the contrast between that and the athletic department, where schools are absolutely delighted to get a kid with an aptitude for sport, and push him hard to achieve.

MichaelCollins 4y ago
Art classes seem the same, art and music teachers always seem eager to give special attention to kids who do much better than their peers.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  Of course. Very few teachers take any interest in the students who do well in math. In fact, they'll often find them annoying. Yes, there are some teachers who do take an interest and do their best for those students. They just aren't the norm, and they don't get much support from the administration.
  - HarryHirsch 4y ago
    Only in America, but that's because the math teachers are nitwits.
- bitwize 4y ago
  Art and music programs are being cut to free up funding to ensure all the kids pass the standardized tests so the school doesn't lose NCLB funding.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    American public schools are generously funded. https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-education-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-ed...
e_i_pi_2 4y ago
I think the big difference here is that it doesn't really matter if someone isn't athletic. A school can have 10 kids for an amazing basketball team and 990 that are terrible at basketball and it doesn't affect anything, but if you have 10 geniuses and 990 kids that can't read then it's a huge negative for society
- WalterBright 4y ago
  > it doesn't really matter if someone isn't athletic Tell that to people who faked athletic credentials to get into the college of their choice. Or who get in with full academic scholarships because they're good at football. I'm not advocating ignoring 990 kids that can't read, not at all. What I am suggesting is ignoring the 10 geniuses and not taking advantage of them is both unfair and bad for society. Consider that WW1 and WW2 were won in large part by smart people making more effective weapons. You see the same thing in the Ukraine war today. Failing to nurture the 10 geniuses is a very bad idea.
  - mediumiqsad 4y ago
    Most of those people would not be considered geniuses to Caltech educated elites like you. I personally think ignoring the top 10 students is perfectly fine because they can clearly already manage. The rest of us can’t, but are still considered subhuman by your Bell Curve reading ilk.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      In most larger universities, you can get an elite education by carefully selecting which courses to take. 1. take the honors track 2. 90% of the classes should be STEM 3. the STEM classes should be heavy on the math 4. avoid classes the stoners and cheaters take 5. classes should entail 2-3 hours of work for every hour of lecture 6. work towards getting As, not just passing 7. don't cheat, you'll be sorry if you do 8. be prepared to work your ass off
      - mediumiqsad 4y ago
ras3022 4y ago
Unless of course you have a school with a math department and a math team that competes. Across American I'm sure it's the exception, and not the rule, to have a math department and a math team. But in California, especially the Bay Area, they're not uncommon. All the public high schools, and many of the middle schools, in my city have them. Private schools will vary based on their priorities.

babyshake 4y ago

> When several of the kids used a more advanced math concept they had learned outside of school to solve a problem, the teacher told them to not do it that way because they hadn't learned it yet. This is nothing new. Most teachers are more concerned with being able to manage their classes than they are with outcomes for individual students.

e_i_pi_2 4y ago
This also seems to be for the sake of the teachers. There's a bunch of different methods to do math problems, and they're supposed to grade both the method and the result. It's way easier if everyone is using the same method than to allow everyone to make their own. As a straw-man example - you could come up with a more advanced way to format your essay and maybe write it in a new language you learned, but if the teacher can't understand it then it doesn't really fulfill the requirements of the assignment. The "new math" thing also isn't anything new, there's a song about it from 1965 and another from 2009 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math_(song) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math_(song)