I have this conversation often with my Russian friends. Usually it goes like this: - Ukrainians provoked this war because they were shelling Donbas for 8 years

I have this conversation often with my Russian friends. Usually it goes like this: - Ukrainians provoked this war because they were shelling Donbas for 8 years killing many people! - You realize they wouldn't shell anyone if Putin hadn't started the war in 2014, right? Sometimes they also argue that after the Euromaidan the Russian population felt "threatened" (which is not true BTW). To which I reply that most of these people are either refugees or dead now. Sometimes they even use the official argument made by Putin that he had to start the war otherwise Ukraine would join NATO. Which is one of the most absurd arguments as Ukraine was repeatedly refused NATO membership and even joining the EU was considered a very delicate affair. Even now, when the cards are on the table, nobody is treating Ukarine's membership in NATO seriously - Zelenski realizes the future of his nation will be Israel-like, focused on external and internal security backed up by Western allies.