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One reason for Russia to sabotage it is as a show of force. "If we can hit our pipeline we can hit your pipeline, too". In unrelated news a brand new pipeline

by yread 4y ago

One reason for Russia to sabotage it is as a show of force. "If we can hit our pipeline we can hit your pipeline, too". In unrelated news a brand new pipeline going from Norway to Poland through the Baltic sea opened just yesterday https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/27/baltic-pipe-norway-poland-gas-pipeline-opens-in-key-move-to-cut-dependency-on-russia https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/27/baltic-pipe-norway-polan... Talking about poor maintenance in a thread about registered underwater explosions sounds like FUD

lizardactivist 4y ago
Sort of like invading your own country, or shooting yourself with a gun would be an effective show of force?
- ovalite 4y ago
  Similar to shooting down your own satellites.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    >> Sort of like invading your own country, or shooting yourself with a gun would be an effective show of force? > Similar to shooting down your own satellites. No. When they do that as a show of force, they shoot down some worthless EOL satellite they don't plan to use ever again. IIRC, the US actually shot down one that was damaged and out of control: a show of force with a "safety" pretext. You don't shoot down valuable, active infrastructure as a show of force. Russia blowing up Nord Stream would be like the US shooting down brand new GPS or spy satellites.
    - 5560675260 4y ago
      NS2 wasn't an "active" infrastructure, NS1 was also less than active since august.
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > NS2 wasn't an "active" infrastructure, NS1 was also less than active since august. So? Both are perfectly serviceable, and neither is EOL junk, which is what matters. Even with your distinction, blowing them us is like the US shooting down a new GPS satellite that just hasn't been officially "turned on" yet, which is pretty much the same loss as shooting down a similar sat that's "active."
        5560675260 4y ago
        Serviceable, yes, but there was no expectation that they will be used again, at least not as long as Putin's regime is in power. It wasn't politically feasible to launch NS2 both because of US pressure and shifts of public opinion caused by the invasion. With NS1 Russia painted itself into a corner by demanding to lift sanctions that somehow prevent them from operating it - there was no way to go back on it without losing face. It can be argued that this destruction is a loss for Russia, but Putin didn't loose anything.
eloisius 4y ago
Another reason would be to disincentivize another faction from deposing Putin. No secret that oligarchs have been dying left and right. Putin could have done this to remove the appeal of replacing him and going back to pre-war "normal" if they can't resume selling gas.
- nmfisher 4y ago
  Bingo. This is the only one that actually makes sense to me.
anonAndOn 4y ago
"We have a saying in Russia, “to bomb Voronezh.” Voronezh is a Russian city not too far from the Ukrainian border, but the phrase does not refer to bombings by Ukraine. It refers to the Russian authorities’ perverse habit of retaliating against their own citizens in response to the actions of other governments." https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/27/opinion/russia-mobilization-putin-war.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/27/opinion/russia-mobilizati...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
valbu 4y ago
Yeah it's clear as day that this is the regular old Russian tactic to intimidate or attack and then deny, even tho everyone knows they are behind this. The pipelines were already closed and will not open in a decade or two anyway because the war and politics. They do not lose any income so why not use it to terrorize and escalate, it's not their first time to mess with foreign underwater infrastructure. Norway->Poland pileline opening is the perfect timing for that.

by yread 4y ago

lizardactivist 4y ago

Sort of like invading your own country, or shooting yourself with a gun would be an effective show of force?

ovalite 4y ago
Similar to shooting down your own satellites.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  >> Sort of like invading your own country, or shooting yourself with a gun would be an effective show of force? > Similar to shooting down your own satellites. No. When they do that as a show of force, they shoot down some worthless EOL satellite they don't plan to use ever again. IIRC, the US actually shot down one that was damaged and out of control: a show of force with a "safety" pretext. You don't shoot down valuable, active infrastructure as a show of force. Russia blowing up Nord Stream would be like the US shooting down brand new GPS or spy satellites.
  - 5560675260 4y ago
    NS2 wasn't an "active" infrastructure, NS1 was also less than active since august.
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > NS2 wasn't an "active" infrastructure, NS1 was also less than active since august. So? Both are perfectly serviceable, and neither is EOL junk, which is what matters. Even with your distinction, blowing them us is like the US shooting down a new GPS satellite that just hasn't been officially "turned on" yet, which is pretty much the same loss as shooting down a similar sat that's "active."
      - 5560675260 4y ago
        Serviceable, yes, but there was no expectation that they will be used again, at least not as long as Putin's regime is in power. It wasn't politically feasible to launch NS2 both because of US pressure and shifts of public opinion caused by the invasion. With NS1 Russia painted itself into a corner by demanding to lift sanctions that somehow prevent them from operating it - there was no way to go back on it without losing face. It can be argued that this destruction is a loss for Russia, but Putin didn't loose anything.

eloisius 4y ago

Another reason would be to disincentivize another faction from deposing Putin. No secret that oligarchs have been dying left and right. Putin could have done this to remove the appeal of replacing him and going back to pre-war "normal" if they can't resume selling gas.

nmfisher 4y ago
Bingo. This is the only one that actually makes sense to me.

anonAndOn 4y ago

"We have a saying in Russia, “to bomb Voronezh.” Voronezh is a Russian city not too far from the Ukrainian border, but the phrase does not refer to bombings by Ukraine. It refers to the Russian authorities’ perverse habit of retaliating against their own citizens in response to the actions of other governments." https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/27/opinion/russia-mobilization-putin-war.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/27/opinion/russia-mobilizati...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

valbu 4y ago

Yeah it's clear as day that this is the regular old Russian tactic to intimidate or attack and then deny, even tho everyone knows they are behind this. The pipelines were already closed and will not open in a decade or two anyway because the war and politics. They do not lose any income so why not use it to terrorize and escalate, it's not their first time to mess with foreign underwater infrastructure. Norway->Poland pileline opening is the perfect timing for that.