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/me thinks reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante https:

/me thinks reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moral_Basis_of_a_Backward_Society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moral_Basis_of_a_Backward_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_selection_(politics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_selection_(politics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakistocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakistocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_mentality would be more productive.

greenie_beans 4y ago
i think this: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-c...
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  Could be. Tabbed for later. Thx. edit: I have that site bookmarked already, and browse there from time to time.
  - greenie_beans 4y ago
    conquest of bread is a fundamental anarcho-communist book and kind of addresses some of those themes you linked if you draw your own conclusions while reading it
falcolas 4y ago
Not everything related to learning requires perfect efficiency. Fiction is a fantastic way to take dry principles and make them relatable. Read those wikipedia articles and Harrison Bergeron if you really want to get the most out of those factual articles and fictional story. To put it another way, productivity is not - nor should it be - the milestone by which we evaluate our lives.
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  That's not what I meant to say. Actually I searched for words, thought about 'informative', 'enlightening', other rephrasing, but been lazy. I like (some) fiction too. But all the discussions about this short story seem to remain fuzzy, coming to no real conclusions, not pointing to the core. Because, hey, fiction, so what? That is detrimental, I think. And because of that, I've put it that way.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    > That is detrimental, I think. Not at all. Different people will take away different lessons and meanings, because they're thinking about what the story means given their own experiences. And as they grow as people, the things they take away will change. Thinking about the principles linked above - how those principles apply to the story and to our own lives - is much more valuable to a person than purely memorizing these principles. What's even better is that a lot of folks will take away things that the author didn't even think of - perhaps couldn't think of given the time frame of the writing. Simply viewing it at a time that has a different framework of morality than was present back in the 1960's can give us a whole different perspective. Thinking is good. Coming to different conclusions while still being able to discuss them with others is even better. EDIT: A concrete example. I noted in a different thread about how I identify with George Bergeron due to my ADHD. Vonnegut is unlikely to have written George in such a way intentionally, nor is it one of the central themes of the story, and yet I'm able to use it to help others understand how my brain works; I can give them a relatable portrayal of a person's mental experience. That's something you won't get by reading a Wikipedia article about Crab Mentality - by simply reading about the themes of a story.
aasasd 4y ago
Yes, the best way to deal with social knowledge is to memorize the list of biases and sociopolitical behaviors from Wikipedia, and to recite the fitting ones when anything relevant comes up.
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  Can't parse if satiric, or not, distracted ATM. But if satiric, why would that be a bad thing, to be able to point to a generalized concept, the essence, which otherwise requires much more words to describe? Like 'Gell-Mann-Amnesia' f.i.?
jszymborski 4y ago
Need art be productive?

greenie_beans 4y ago

i think this: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-c...

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
Could be. Tabbed for later. Thx. edit: I have that site bookmarked already, and browse there from time to time.
- greenie_beans 4y ago
  conquest of bread is a fundamental anarcho-communist book and kind of addresses some of those themes you linked if you draw your own conclusions while reading it

falcolas 4y ago

Not everything related to learning requires perfect efficiency. Fiction is a fantastic way to take dry principles and make them relatable. Read those wikipedia articles and Harrison Bergeron if you really want to get the most out of those factual articles and fictional story. To put it another way, productivity is not - nor should it be - the milestone by which we evaluate our lives.

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
That's not what I meant to say. Actually I searched for words, thought about 'informative', 'enlightening', other rephrasing, but been lazy. I like (some) fiction too. But all the discussions about this short story seem to remain fuzzy, coming to no real conclusions, not pointing to the core. Because, hey, fiction, so what? That is detrimental, I think. And because of that, I've put it that way.
- falcolas 4y ago
  > That is detrimental, I think. Not at all. Different people will take away different lessons and meanings, because they're thinking about what the story means given their own experiences. And as they grow as people, the things they take away will change. Thinking about the principles linked above - how those principles apply to the story and to our own lives - is much more valuable to a person than purely memorizing these principles. What's even better is that a lot of folks will take away things that the author didn't even think of - perhaps couldn't think of given the time frame of the writing. Simply viewing it at a time that has a different framework of morality than was present back in the 1960's can give us a whole different perspective. Thinking is good. Coming to different conclusions while still being able to discuss them with others is even better. EDIT: A concrete example. I noted in a different thread about how I identify with George Bergeron due to my ADHD. Vonnegut is unlikely to have written George in such a way intentionally, nor is it one of the central themes of the story, and yet I'm able to use it to help others understand how my brain works; I can give them a relatable portrayal of a person's mental experience. That's something you won't get by reading a Wikipedia article about Crab Mentality - by simply reading about the themes of a story.

aasasd 4y ago

Yes, the best way to deal with social knowledge is to memorize the list of biases and sociopolitical behaviors from Wikipedia, and to recite the fitting ones when anything relevant comes up.

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
Can't parse if satiric, or not, distracted ATM. But if satiric, why would that be a bad thing, to be able to point to a generalized concept, the essence, which otherwise requires much more words to describe? Like 'Gell-Mann-Amnesia' f.i.?

jszymborski 4y ago

Need art be productive?