5 ms·

I wonder who RUptured it?

by lysp 4y ago

Sebb767 4y ago
> RUptured Hard to believe, they have nothing to gain from this.
- ecmascript 4y ago
  Of course they have, now they have a reason to escalate
  - krisoft 4y ago
    Do you think between getting pummeled by all the NATO weapons exported to Ukraine they were missing an excuse?
- toopok4k3 4y ago
  Yeah, like they have much to gain in Ukraine either. It's not like they are a rational actor at this stage.
  - NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
    Except maybe the Russian speaking ethnically Russian separatists in the Donbass region of Ukraine? (from before the 2022 propaganda started): https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-the-forgotten-victims-of-donbass/a-42597692 https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-the-forgotten-victims-of-donba... Story from 2018: https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/about-40000-ukrainians-granted-russian-citizenship-in-january-june.html https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/about-40000-ukrain... So many seem to have just swallowed anything and everything the US propaganda has put out this year and know absolutely nothing about the last 10 years of Ukrainian history. From last year, Drone strikes and violation of the Minks Agreements by Ukraine: https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukraine%E2%80%99s-recent-drone-strike-reignites-tensions-donbass-195709 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukraine%E2%80%99s-recen... Russia's invasion does seem absolutely batshit unless you do even 10 minutes of digging on the subject: https://search.brave.com/search?q=ukraine+donbass&source=web&tf=2000-01-01to2021-12-31 https://search.brave.com/search?q=ukraine+donbass&source=web... There are Russians in Ukraine and Russia is fighting for them. How is that irrational? You can argue they're wrong to do it, or that they shouldn't. But irrational? Nonsense.
    - jiggawatts 4y ago
      Your links are highly disingenuous. Russia supported armed separatists and started a low-grade war against Ukraine in 2014. Their aims have always been clear: control Crimea and seize control of a land bridge to it. They never hid these intentions, and you'd have to purposefully ignore this realpolitik in order to lay the blame at Ukraine's feet. Are Ukrainians all saints, souls pure as the driven snow? Clearly not. Certainly not significantly better (or worse) than Russians. Similar people, similar politics, similar ethics. Their country is just as corrupt, if not more so. Their politics is just as dirty. They have their right-wing white nationalists the same as Russia. They killed people in the Donbass for a decade, yes. But who invaded in 2014? Russia. Who invaded in 2022? Russia. Your argument is a lot like saying that the police in Iran are killing women "for a reason".
      - NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
        jiggawatts 4y ago
- krzyk 4y ago
  They can gain much - gas reserves in Europe during winter to small -> no chance for sanctions on Russian gas. This is the same they did with the "repairs" for NS1 which stopped gas to Germany for few weeks (or months I don't remember exactly).
  - Sebb767 4y ago
    Well, if the gas can't be delivered, of what use is the lack of gas sanctions to Russia? In this case it even affected NS2, which Russia was actually fighting to get up and running.
    - krzyk 4y ago
      Maybe they have a fast way to fix it? Or they can prolong fixing into deep winter - and again make the gas price even higher like they did previously. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/28/nord-stream-pipeline-explosions-eu-00059262 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/28/nord-stream-pipelin...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- toss1 4y ago
  Russia has a LOT to gain from this. 1) They are running out of time on this war of aggression, and this will force gas price action NOW, not in December. They can sell gas through other pipelines to the EU if it accepts it. 2) Norway just TODAY inaugurated a new pipeline to the EU. Norway has warned about unaccounted-for drone activity around it's oil and gas fields. Russia is likely sending a message: "Nice pipeline you have there - it's be a shame if something happened to it". 3) Russia has favorable actors planted in just about every western democracy, and some of them are already tweeting accusations against the US. As long as the Russians can keep suspicion off of them with reasoning like "what motive do they have?" and "somebody else must have done it", it works very much to their advantage in undermining opposition to their war of aggression. In contrast, this is the last thing the administrations in the US or Germany need. They need stability and moderation of gas prices. Their methods are not to create chaos and try to take advantage. That is Russia's standard modus operandi. So, yes, Russia has the biggest motives of anyone. They also have the means with extensive submarine capabilities, and ports on the Baltic Sea.
  - joshuajill 4y ago
    Fair call Russia might have done it for those and other reasons. However 1) Was there any gas flowing at all? Sure anything can cause speculation. 2) This also makes it a convenient timing for the western allies to do it, including Norway. Germany is way too complacent with Russian for US liking. 3) Such more so the US in terms of operatives in Europe and Russia. Who says the US is sensitive to gas prices in Europe? Also Biden said they would do it. And at this point capabilities are not laking in either side. But no we're not going to know for sure for a while.
    - toss1 4y ago
      >>Who says the US is sensitive to gas prices in Europe? The US was already somewhat sensitive to global NatGas prices even before they recently permitted exports. Since we started permitting exports of NatGas, and are now actively sending all we physically can to support EU, it definitely affects both heating and electrical costs in the US, and the economy and political climate is very sensitive to those inputs.
- gonzo41 4y ago
  It's going to be an extra cold hard winter for Europe. This is an attempt to create enough doubt to start driving a wedge between the west and ukraine.
phasersout 4y ago
But why would anybody PUTIN such an effort?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kokorono 4y ago
- Bud 4y ago
  Excuse me? What was that?
  - aaomidi 4y ago
    It’s a nazi on this platform. Flagged it.
kokorono 4y ago

I wonder who RUptured it?

by lysp 4y ago

I wonder who RUptured it?

Sebb767 4y ago

> RUptured Hard to believe, they have nothing to gain from this.

ecmascript 4y ago
Of course they have, now they have a reason to escalate
- krisoft 4y ago
  Do you think between getting pummeled by all the NATO weapons exported to Ukraine they were missing an excuse?
toopok4k3 4y ago
Yeah, like they have much to gain in Ukraine either. It's not like they are a rational actor at this stage.
- NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
  Except maybe the Russian speaking ethnically Russian separatists in the Donbass region of Ukraine? (from before the 2022 propaganda started): https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-the-forgotten-victims-of-donbass/a-42597692 https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-the-forgotten-victims-of-donba... Story from 2018: https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/about-40000-ukrainians-granted-russian-citizenship-in-january-june.html https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/about-40000-ukrain... So many seem to have just swallowed anything and everything the US propaganda has put out this year and know absolutely nothing about the last 10 years of Ukrainian history. From last year, Drone strikes and violation of the Minks Agreements by Ukraine: https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukraine%E2%80%99s-recent-drone-strike-reignites-tensions-donbass-195709 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/ukraine%E2%80%99s-recen... Russia's invasion does seem absolutely batshit unless you do even 10 minutes of digging on the subject: https://search.brave.com/search?q=ukraine+donbass&source=web&tf=2000-01-01to2021-12-31 https://search.brave.com/search?q=ukraine+donbass&source=web... There are Russians in Ukraine and Russia is fighting for them. How is that irrational? You can argue they're wrong to do it, or that they shouldn't. But irrational? Nonsense.
  - jiggawatts 4y ago
    Your links are highly disingenuous. Russia supported armed separatists and started a low-grade war against Ukraine in 2014. Their aims have always been clear: control Crimea and seize control of a land bridge to it. They never hid these intentions, and you'd have to purposefully ignore this realpolitik in order to lay the blame at Ukraine's feet. Are Ukrainians all saints, souls pure as the driven snow? Clearly not. Certainly not significantly better (or worse) than Russians. Similar people, similar politics, similar ethics. Their country is just as corrupt, if not more so. Their politics is just as dirty. They have their right-wing white nationalists the same as Russia. They killed people in the Donbass for a decade, yes. But who invaded in 2014? Russia. Who invaded in 2022? Russia. Your argument is a lot like saying that the police in Iran are killing women "for a reason".
    - NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
      - jiggawatts 4y ago
krzyk 4y ago
They can gain much - gas reserves in Europe during winter to small -> no chance for sanctions on Russian gas. This is the same they did with the "repairs" for NS1 which stopped gas to Germany for few weeks (or months I don't remember exactly).
- Sebb767 4y ago
  Well, if the gas can't be delivered, of what use is the lack of gas sanctions to Russia? In this case it even affected NS2, which Russia was actually fighting to get up and running.
  - krzyk 4y ago
    Maybe they have a fast way to fix it? Or they can prolong fixing into deep winter - and again make the gas price even higher like they did previously. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/28/nord-stream-pipeline-explosions-eu-00059262 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/28/nord-stream-pipelin...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
toss1 4y ago
Russia has a LOT to gain from this. 1) They are running out of time on this war of aggression, and this will force gas price action NOW, not in December. They can sell gas through other pipelines to the EU if it accepts it. 2) Norway just TODAY inaugurated a new pipeline to the EU. Norway has warned about unaccounted-for drone activity around it's oil and gas fields. Russia is likely sending a message: "Nice pipeline you have there - it's be a shame if something happened to it". 3) Russia has favorable actors planted in just about every western democracy, and some of them are already tweeting accusations against the US. As long as the Russians can keep suspicion off of them with reasoning like "what motive do they have?" and "somebody else must have done it", it works very much to their advantage in undermining opposition to their war of aggression. In contrast, this is the last thing the administrations in the US or Germany need. They need stability and moderation of gas prices. Their methods are not to create chaos and try to take advantage. That is Russia's standard modus operandi. So, yes, Russia has the biggest motives of anyone. They also have the means with extensive submarine capabilities, and ports on the Baltic Sea.
- joshuajill 4y ago
  Fair call Russia might have done it for those and other reasons. However 1) Was there any gas flowing at all? Sure anything can cause speculation. 2) This also makes it a convenient timing for the western allies to do it, including Norway. Germany is way too complacent with Russian for US liking. 3) Such more so the US in terms of operatives in Europe and Russia. Who says the US is sensitive to gas prices in Europe? Also Biden said they would do it. And at this point capabilities are not laking in either side. But no we're not going to know for sure for a while.
  - toss1 4y ago
    >>Who says the US is sensitive to gas prices in Europe? The US was already somewhat sensitive to global NatGas prices even before they recently permitted exports. Since we started permitting exports of NatGas, and are now actively sending all we physically can to support EU, it definitely affects both heating and electrical costs in the US, and the economy and political climate is very sensitive to those inputs.
gonzo41 4y ago
It's going to be an extra cold hard winter for Europe. This is an attempt to create enough doubt to start driving a wedge between the west and ukraine.

phasersout 4y ago

But why would anybody PUTIN such an effort?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

kokorono 4y ago

Bud 4y ago
Excuse me? What was that?
- aaomidi 4y ago
  It’s a nazi on this platform. Flagged it.

kokorono 4y ago