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But who is that? Ukraine should be fine with having Germany buy Russian gas since Germany keeps sending arms and push others to send arms. I don't see why the
by jeltz 4y ago
But who is that? Ukraine should be fine with having Germany buy Russian gas since Germany keeps sending arms and push others to send arms. I don't see why the US would care either now that Germany is finally moving away from Russian gas. And Russia can just close the pipeline in a less destructive way.
- aa-jv 4y ago>But who is that? The USA has long wanted to interfere in Germanys' relations with Russia and has done so, over and over, to ensure they are never true allies. So, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the US is behind these attacks.
- bdg 4y agoFeb 7, 2022 > Biden: “If Russia invades -- that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine, again, then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2,” > Journalist: “But how will you do that exactly, since the project and control of the project is within Germany’s control?” > Biden: “We will, I promise you, we’ll be able to do it,” Biden replied. I don't want to play conspiracy guy, but the statement stuck in my mind since he said it.
- aa-jv 4y agoIts not a conspiracy - the US has long wanted a reason/justification for turning off Germany's gas. I guess this is happening, now.
- cassianoleal 4y ago> A conspiracy (...) is a secret plan or agreement between persons (called conspirers or conspirators) for an unlawful or harmful purpose, (...) especially with political motivation, while keeping their agreement secret from the public or from other people affected by it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy It is a conspiracy.
- aa-jv 4y agoNot a conspiracy: Biden himself stated - quite publically - that they would do it. It has been done. Did you not read the quote? Besides which, the US unilaterally gives itself the right to do these sorts of things at its own discretion on a regular basis.
- CentralHarvest 4y agoIt's certainly a conspiracy in the sense that the USA and its functionaries are not going to be coming out and directly saying "sure, we blew up Nordstream to remove a Russian bargaining chip and prevent Germany from suing for peace."
- cassianoleal 4y agoThey've also not publicised the plan. That stays secret. The plan is the conspiracy.
- notdonspaulding 4y ago> Not a conspiracy: Biden himself stated - quite publically - that they would do it. It has been done. I have no strong opinions yet in the argument over whether or not the USA conspired to sabotage the NS pipelines. I'm just here to point out that secrecy is not a required part of a conspiracy. The literal translation of "conspire" from Latin would be something like "to breathe together", insinuating a synchronization of movements, a plotting together. But, in our world today, all conspiracies (both confirmed and theoretical conspiracies) seem to get bucketed together. And so in common parlance, as soon as a thing is publicly confirmed as actually happening, in most people's minds it moves out of the "Conspiracy" bucket into the "History" bucket. But that's just a loss of language on our part. As always, my go-to resource in recovering the meanings of English words is Webster's 1828. https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/conspiracy https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/conspiracy
- tokai 4y agoIt can be anyone. Could even be a private person. But yeah its definitely not Russia.
- defrost 4y agoRussia isn't exactly homogenous; satellite states aside even core Muscovite populations are divided in opinion on war and Putin - even if not exactly vocal. This could range from a small group staging a false flag to push Putin further (he is a surprise moderate of the extremely hawkish Russsian elements) to a different small group staging some form of protest by sabotage .. to any other ridiculous scenario imaginable.
- ajsnigrutin 4y agoYep, russia controls "the valve", so it doesn't need to destroy the pipelines, and the minute EU (well, mostly germany) decides to negiotiate, putin can open the valve. With this, even if they negotiate, there won't be any gas soon. So, it's bad for russia, bad for eu, and the only one being better of is USA... who was threathened to do exactly this more than once. https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1490792461979078662 https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1490792461979078662
- 2Gkashmiri 4y agocool. lets see the world now decide how they will play it, i mean here is prior deliberations and intent and we saw today the action itself so if USA is behind this which they most probably are, how will EU for example respond to this aggression? I hope the same response viz a viz sanctions, trade barriers, this and that.????
- IAmGraydon 4y agoIt would be exactly like Russia to do something like this in order to drive a wedge between the US and EU. Look for something Biden said that could be misconstrued as a threat to blow up the pipeline, actually blow it up, and then watch the world blame the US.
- 4y ago
- DocTomoe 4y agoUkraine will be fine, post-war, with Germany buying Russian gas that went through pipelines on Ukrainian soils, because they get paid transit fees. No transit fees necessary for Nord Stream.
- varispeed 4y agoUkraine has undeveloped large gas reserves (mostly at the territory currently occupied by Russia), so they could potentially replace Russia in the future as a supplier.
- jeltz 4y agoI have said this claim many times but it does not match the numbers I have seen on e.g. Wikipedia. Most of the gas seems to be in areas under Ukrainian control.
- LtWorf 4y agoIf they are in russian occupied territory, they can forget about them.
- DocTomoe 4y agoAt risk of being a massively unpopular opinion: Ukraine has a track record of being an unreliable trading entity against other European countries, to the point where it looks like they were actively stealing gas that was sold by Russia to e.g. Germany.[1] Under these circumstances, I'd much rather avoid being dependant on Ukrainian gas and would prefer Russian one every day of the week. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_disputes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_dis... (definitely worth the read, gives some background information about why we see what we see in this russoukrainian war today)
- Gare 4y agoPoland? They were vocal opposers, and the ruptures are close to their coast.
- weeeeelp 4y agoPoland's got the Formoza unit, such an operation would certainly be within their capabilities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JW_Formoza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JW_Formoza Not that I believe that would be orchestrated by the Polish gov.
- bboozzoo 4y agoThis made me chuckle a bit. The polish government can hardly contract appropriate levels coal so that people who burn it to heat their homes have trouble replenishing their supplies before winter. Just yesterday they came up with 50% tax on excessive income for companies which employ 250+ people, so clearly they aren't capable of planning months or years ahead, let it be the effects of such a strike on NS.
- LatteLazy 4y agoThe USA are the obvious answer. They've refused export licenses for gas for years specifically to keep US energy cheap so the US can compete with german industry. China are another answer. If they can't get the gas, there is less incentive for peace so more chance of the conflict rolling on and distracting from their activities. Plus, more gas for them to buy more cheaply etc. Chunks of the middle east as well, they want to replace Russian gas in European markets despite their higher prices. The list really is quite long.
- sudden_dystopia 4y agoChina seems to want this war to end sooner rather than later based on recent comments from their politburo.
- Gare 4y agoI doubt that Chinese submarine could enter Baltic sea without being detected.
- LatteLazy 4y agoIsn't the whole point of subs is that they can go almost anywhere undetected, Chinese or otherwise? Hence all the fuss about Russian subs (possibly) entering Swedish waters over the last few decades, but no one being sure if it happened or whether the sub in question was actually Russian... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_submarine_incidents#After_the_cold_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_submarine_incidents#Af... Though I doubt there is any foul play here at all...
- albalus 4y agoNo pun intended but it seems to be a measure to make sure europe doesn't get cold feet politically if their feet get too cold in the winter. Either way it is debilitating to Russia because it impedes their main path to raise revenue to prop up their currency, as the only way to buy gas from russia is rubles. Russia's Ability to transport LNG by ship is abysmal compared to Nord Stream.
- dividedbyzero 4y agoWouldn't Russian gas come with conditions? Like to drastically reduce support for Ukraine? Given time and cold weather, that might not be such a hard sell to the German electorate.
- lm28469 4y ago> I don't see why the US would care either How naive... https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/as-imports-of-us-gas-surge-so-does-concern-over-its-environmental-impact/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/as-imports-of-u...
- rasz 4y agoAnyone buying russian gas is pretty much directly funding putin army. No, Ukraine would not be fine with that. All the Baltic states wouldnt mind killing it too. Poland in particular (NL1 killed "Friendship" pipeline) would be most pleased, except its incapable of such moves due to dysfunctional leadership.
- jcadam 4y agoChina is buying Russian gas and then reselling it to Europe as LNG at a substantial markup.