4 ms·

Perhaps, but deliberately using the expression incorrectly is even sillier. All you're going to do is annoy people or make them think you're ignorant. What's th

by bloak 4y ago

Perhaps, but deliberately using the expression incorrectly is even sillier. All you're going to do is annoy people or make them think you're ignorant. What's the point in that? What's wrong with saying "raise the question" or "prompt the question" instead, which is also more logical? What is the point of taking a pompous old-fashioned expression and using it incorrectly? I'm not opposed to linguistic innovation if it makes the language more elegant or more expressive, but misuse of "beg the question" is just ugly and cringe-inducing.

smeagull 4y ago
If I'll annoy grammarians and pedants, and only they will think I'm ignorant, then that's okay with me. Language isn't logical. It's a bricolage of things people have done to communicate. It's a mash-up of many different tools all trying to accomplish a hundred different things, and if people can't find a handy screwdriver, they may successfully use a butterknife instead.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Perhaps, but deliberately using the expression incorrectly is even sillier. It's not incorrect, and calling it that is exactly the misguided pedantry referred to in GP. > I'm not opposed to linguistic innovation if it makes the language more elegant or more expressive The intransitive sense of “begs the question” does exactly that, and I explained how it does that in GP. Also, its been in common use long enough that it is hardly "innovation”; the persistent pedantic struggle against it is a reactionary struggle for linguistic regression. Which might still make some sense, if the usage was one which created confusion or obscured meaning, but its not.
bryanrasmussen 4y ago
begs the question is just so much more elegant and expressive than raise or prompts that it is really sort of funny to assert otherwise. Having said this, on the internet, I must now defend it. to beg in conversation is of course more energetic than raising or prompting. When you beg it is urgent, a question that has been raised can be tabled for later, a prompt can be ignored as we point at a different reporter we know is more likely to ask about how this affects the First Lady, but if the question is being begged it demands an answer from us. To beg calls forth the image naturally, for those who think in images, of a beggar. A beggar has moral urgency, they need what we have to give, and that moral urgency of the image is transferred to the question implied by the subject of discussion. To prompt or raise a question have absolutely no visual analogue, they are lifeless, bloodless, and should be buried before rotting. Why do you think that this more common usage of beg the question has come into play? It's not (necessarily) ignorance, I believe the cause is that the phrasing in English far better supports what is wanted and this allowed the phrase itself to spread among the population as a tool for expressing thought.

by bloak 4y ago

smeagull 4y ago

If I'll annoy grammarians and pedants, and only they will think I'm ignorant, then that's okay with me. Language isn't logical. It's a bricolage of things people have done to communicate. It's a mash-up of many different tools all trying to accomplish a hundred different things, and if people can't find a handy screwdriver, they may successfully use a butterknife instead.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Perhaps, but deliberately using the expression incorrectly is even sillier. It's not incorrect, and calling it that is exactly the misguided pedantry referred to in GP. > I'm not opposed to linguistic innovation if it makes the language more elegant or more expressive The intransitive sense of “begs the question” does exactly that, and I explained how it does that in GP. Also, its been in common use long enough that it is hardly "innovation”; the persistent pedantic struggle against it is a reactionary struggle for linguistic regression. Which might still make some sense, if the usage was one which created confusion or obscured meaning, but its not.

bryanrasmussen 4y ago

begs the question is just so much more elegant and expressive than raise or prompts that it is really sort of funny to assert otherwise. Having said this, on the internet, I must now defend it. to beg in conversation is of course more energetic than raising or prompting. When you beg it is urgent, a question that has been raised can be tabled for later, a prompt can be ignored as we point at a different reporter we know is more likely to ask about how this affects the First Lady, but if the question is being begged it demands an answer from us. To beg calls forth the image naturally, for those who think in images, of a beggar. A beggar has moral urgency, they need what we have to give, and that moral urgency of the image is transferred to the question implied by the subject of discussion. To prompt or raise a question have absolutely no visual analogue, they are lifeless, bloodless, and should be buried before rotting. Why do you think that this more common usage of beg the question has come into play? It's not (necessarily) ignorance, I believe the cause is that the phrasing in English far better supports what is wanted and this allowed the phrase itself to spread among the population as a tool for expressing thought.