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A study was made for Switzerland. If all private cars were going electric, it will only require an additional 17% to the current electric generation. This is no

A study was made for Switzerland. If all private cars were going electric, it will only require an additional 17% to the current electric generation. This is not a shitload... People keep forgetting that the yield of an ICE is really really bad.

dmitriid 4y ago
> it will only require an additional 17% to the current electric generation. That.... That is not an "only". Switzerland's total consumption is 58.46 billion kWh [1]. "Only" 17% increase is another 9 billion kWh. That's the equivalent of Estonia [1] https://www.worlddata.info/europe/switzerland/energy-consumption.php https://www.worlddata.info/europe/switzerland/energy-consump...
- mahkeiro 4y ago
  Estonia is 1.3M inhabitants or about 15% of Swiss population… And that’s if all cars were going electric which is going to take many years. Not like you need to increase power generation by 15% overnight. This perfectly doable and not even a real engineering challenge.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    And population of Switzerland is 8.6 million. What's your point? It is an actual engineering challenge because it's not just Switzerland that will increase its power demands. Total energy consumption of EU is on the order of thousands of petajoules: "Final energy consumption in the EU in 2020 amounted to 37 086 PJ" [1] "Not an egineering challenge" is in reality "we need to increase energy supply by 6 thousand petajoules which amounts to sum total of all renewable energy currently available in the EU" (renewables account for 17% of EU's energy production). Plus add all the infrastructure needed to distribute it to charging stations. Not a challenge at all. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Energy_statistics_-_an_overview#Final_energy_consumption https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
    - greatpatton 4y ago
      My point is that 15% is still 15% even it represents the population of Estonia or of a suburb of NY. By the way you are mixing everything. I talk about private transport and you give me the figure for total energy consumption... Total energy consumption is not going to increase!!! The petrol burnt in an engine is already counted. Because of all the loss due to the pathetic yield of IEC engines, your are not going to increase the total energy consumption but decrease it when you will electrify transport. For Switzerland electrification of all private transport represent the addition of 2 nuclear reactors, so no nothing to write home about regarding sizing of the grid.
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        > 5% even it represents the population of Estonia or of a suburb of NY. So? Why can't you make the next logical step? If it's a 17% increase for Switzerland, then it will be at in the same ballpark much for all other countries, won't it? Then an increase for Germany will be probably as much as two Switzerlands etc. > By the way you are mixing everything. I talk about private transport and you give me the figure for total energy consumption. I'm not. I'm just pointing the flaws in the insistence that "it's not even an engineering challenge" > For Switzerland electrification of all private transport represent the addition of 2 nuclear reactors Ah yes. It's just such an easy not an egineering challenge to do.
        greatpatton 4y ago
        Switzerland built and put online 3 reactors in 6 years between 1965 and 1971, so yes it's a proven fact that's it's technically easy. Now from a political point of view that's another issue.
        dmitriid 4y ago
        You're confusing speed with easy.
    - friendzis 4y ago
      > renewables account for 17% of EU's energy production That's yearly production. Solar has very poor seasonality, wind is not that bad is still nowhere close to nuclear/gas, therefore capacity-wise these numbers are the floor, not the ceiling. To add on top of that Europe is migrating from nuclear in generation altogether :)
friendzis 4y ago
First, you are only talking about generation component. 17% may not seem like much until you consider that 1. it is roughly half of existing nuclear generation, which is already decided to be phased out 2. some nuclear reactors provide heating 3. that "only" 17% is equal to total consumption of one Baltic state. That is for Switzerland alone, which is measly small compared to EEA population. For the sake of argument round that 17% to be 10 TWh. Switzerland owns roughly 6 mio private vehicles. EEA owns roughly 250 mio. According to referenced study EEA needs "only" roughly 400 TWh additional generation, or something like 60 nuclear reactors. You just proved my point with data - it is shitloads of additional energy. Second, that additional energy will have to be moved somehow. You not only need ample generation, but also cross-region links, transmission grids and distribution lines to actual homes/chargers.
- xiphias2 4y ago
  Even if Switzerland just buys LPG and transmits electricity using that LPG, it is much more efficient to generate energy in big plants than in car motors. I do not see electricity generation a problem. Long routes are still problem though in Europe where I am used to going with 170km/h, but 150km/h is normal on the highway in Eastern Europe.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    > it is much more efficient to generate energy in big plants than in car motors. I do not see electricity generation a problem. Those plants need to be built. Gas pipelines need to be routed to those plants. Energy distribution has to be built etc.
    - xiphias2 4y ago
      This is a problem only in corrupt countries. Switzerland is one of the few countries where government projects finish on time in the planned amount of money.
      - dmitriid 4y ago

dmitriid 4y ago

> it will only require an additional 17% to the current electric generation. That.... That is not an "only". Switzerland's total consumption is 58.46 billion kWh [1]. "Only" 17% increase is another 9 billion kWh. That's the equivalent of Estonia [1] https://www.worlddata.info/europe/switzerland/energy-consumption.php https://www.worlddata.info/europe/switzerland/energy-consump...

mahkeiro 4y ago
Estonia is 1.3M inhabitants or about 15% of Swiss population… And that’s if all cars were going electric which is going to take many years. Not like you need to increase power generation by 15% overnight. This perfectly doable and not even a real engineering challenge.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  And population of Switzerland is 8.6 million. What's your point? It is an actual engineering challenge because it's not just Switzerland that will increase its power demands. Total energy consumption of EU is on the order of thousands of petajoules: "Final energy consumption in the EU in 2020 amounted to 37 086 PJ" [1] "Not an egineering challenge" is in reality "we need to increase energy supply by 6 thousand petajoules which amounts to sum total of all renewable energy currently available in the EU" (renewables account for 17% of EU's energy production). Plus add all the infrastructure needed to distribute it to charging stations. Not a challenge at all. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Energy_statistics_-_an_overview#Final_energy_consumption https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
  - greatpatton 4y ago
    My point is that 15% is still 15% even it represents the population of Estonia or of a suburb of NY. By the way you are mixing everything. I talk about private transport and you give me the figure for total energy consumption... Total energy consumption is not going to increase!!! The petrol burnt in an engine is already counted. Because of all the loss due to the pathetic yield of IEC engines, your are not going to increase the total energy consumption but decrease it when you will electrify transport. For Switzerland electrification of all private transport represent the addition of 2 nuclear reactors, so no nothing to write home about regarding sizing of the grid.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      > 5% even it represents the population of Estonia or of a suburb of NY. So? Why can't you make the next logical step? If it's a 17% increase for Switzerland, then it will be at in the same ballpark much for all other countries, won't it? Then an increase for Germany will be probably as much as two Switzerlands etc. > By the way you are mixing everything. I talk about private transport and you give me the figure for total energy consumption. I'm not. I'm just pointing the flaws in the insistence that "it's not even an engineering challenge" > For Switzerland electrification of all private transport represent the addition of 2 nuclear reactors Ah yes. It's just such an easy not an egineering challenge to do.
      - greatpatton 4y ago
        Switzerland built and put online 3 reactors in 6 years between 1965 and 1971, so yes it's a proven fact that's it's technically easy. Now from a political point of view that's another issue.
        dmitriid 4y ago
        You're confusing speed with easy.
  - friendzis 4y ago
    > renewables account for 17% of EU's energy production That's yearly production. Solar has very poor seasonality, wind is not that bad is still nowhere close to nuclear/gas, therefore capacity-wise these numbers are the floor, not the ceiling. To add on top of that Europe is migrating from nuclear in generation altogether :)

friendzis 4y ago

First, you are only talking about generation component. 17% may not seem like much until you consider that 1. it is roughly half of existing nuclear generation, which is already decided to be phased out 2. some nuclear reactors provide heating 3. that "only" 17% is equal to total consumption of one Baltic state. That is for Switzerland alone, which is measly small compared to EEA population. For the sake of argument round that 17% to be 10 TWh. Switzerland owns roughly 6 mio private vehicles. EEA owns roughly 250 mio. According to referenced study EEA needs "only" roughly 400 TWh additional generation, or something like 60 nuclear reactors. You just proved my point with data - it is shitloads of additional energy. Second, that additional energy will have to be moved somehow. You not only need ample generation, but also cross-region links, transmission grids and distribution lines to actual homes/chargers.

xiphias2 4y ago
Even if Switzerland just buys LPG and transmits electricity using that LPG, it is much more efficient to generate energy in big plants than in car motors. I do not see electricity generation a problem. Long routes are still problem though in Europe where I am used to going with 170km/h, but 150km/h is normal on the highway in Eastern Europe.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > it is much more efficient to generate energy in big plants than in car motors. I do not see electricity generation a problem. Those plants need to be built. Gas pipelines need to be routed to those plants. Energy distribution has to be built etc.
  - xiphias2 4y ago
    This is a problem only in corrupt countries. Switzerland is one of the few countries where government projects finish on time in the planned amount of money.
    - dmitriid 4y ago