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One aspect we're not thinking about is the customer service cost to a world without passwords. If you forget your password, they just email you a new one. Wha

One aspect we're not thinking about is the customer service cost to a world without passwords. If you forget your password, they just email you a new one. What happens if you lose your bank's 2FA token and miss a payment deadline? "Too bad so sad," is the HN answer, but customers will move their money elsewhere. So now you need a budget for a call center, replacing hardware tokens with overnight shipping, and the "oops we'll pay the late fee for you", at least in the early days. (Once it's "normal" then those benefits will go away, but who is going to keep their money in a bank where they need to carry around something on their keychain, and if they lose it, they lose all their money? Nobody. You have to really smooth over the jarring transition, and that's expensive.) Meanwhile "are you sure it's you?" questions are free; pay a software engineer to write them, never touch it again, no matter how many customers you have. So I guess the question you have to answer, is how can a company make more money off of you by changing how you authenticate? If you show them the $$, they'll show you the WebAuthn.

fashiontechguru 4y ago
That makes me think of all the people who say they avoid staying in NYC homeless shelters because their shoes get stolen. How does a yubikey work for people who are in situations where they can’t reliably hang on to a single possession? Who provides customer service to people who only scrape together a few dollars a day? Hardware 2FA isn’t much of a solution for people who don’t even qualify to rent a P.O. Box.
quadrifoliate 4y ago
Why does everyone jump to banks? They are welcome to keep their annoying security procedures. All my money is in there. I show my actual ID every time I transact at a bank branch, so I can understand if they are careful. The things that annoy me the most when I travel are rarely banks – those tend to work just fine. It's usually the main trifecta – Facebook, Twitter, and sometimes Gmail. > If you forget your password, they just email you a new one. And in fact this is exactly what is so terrifying about Google moving more towards this kind of "oh you're in a different place, you must be a bad person" authentication. Email services are the single point of password recovery for almost all the websites you access. Sure, perhaps you'll lose a token; but most folks will learn to carry a couple over time. On the other hand, if Google locks you out because you look "too risky", you might lose access to multiple websites (because a lot of them these days email you security codes and such if you're logging in from a browser without cookies).
- pooper 4y ago
  > Facebook, Twitter, and sometimes Gmail. I know this is really sloppy of me but I'd argue my Gmail is as important if not more important than my bank account. If you have access to my bank, you have access to one bank account of mine but if you have control of my Google account, you now have access to all my bank accounts. I agree though. I opted into two step authentication for a reason. If I give you both my password and two step code, add this entry to an append only table and move on. I guess Facebook and Twitter will have this problem where people will take over someone's account and lock them out. Without going into too many details, I saw this happen to someone close to me. It is wild that there are scammers who do this for a living.

fashiontechguru 4y ago

That makes me think of all the people who say they avoid staying in NYC homeless shelters because their shoes get stolen. How does a yubikey work for people who are in situations where they can’t reliably hang on to a single possession? Who provides customer service to people who only scrape together a few dollars a day? Hardware 2FA isn’t much of a solution for people who don’t even qualify to rent a P.O. Box.

quadrifoliate 4y ago

Why does everyone jump to banks? They are welcome to keep their annoying security procedures. All my money is in there. I show my actual ID every time I transact at a bank branch, so I can understand if they are careful. The things that annoy me the most when I travel are rarely banks – those tend to work just fine. It's usually the main trifecta – Facebook, Twitter, and sometimes Gmail. > If you forget your password, they just email you a new one. And in fact this is exactly what is so terrifying about Google moving more towards this kind of "oh you're in a different place, you must be a bad person" authentication. Email services are the single point of password recovery for almost all the websites you access. Sure, perhaps you'll lose a token; but most folks will learn to carry a couple over time. On the other hand, if Google locks you out because you look "too risky", you might lose access to multiple websites (because a lot of them these days email you security codes and such if you're logging in from a browser without cookies).

pooper 4y ago
> Facebook, Twitter, and sometimes Gmail. I know this is really sloppy of me but I'd argue my Gmail is as important if not more important than my bank account. If you have access to my bank, you have access to one bank account of mine but if you have control of my Google account, you now have access to all my bank accounts. I agree though. I opted into two step authentication for a reason. If I give you both my password and two step code, add this entry to an append only table and move on. I guess Facebook and Twitter will have this problem where people will take over someone's account and lock them out. Without going into too many details, I saw this happen to someone close to me. It is wild that there are scammers who do this for a living.