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Richard Pogge at Ohio State touches briefly upon this problem in his astronomy lectures as an analogy to trying to communicate with a putative extraterrestrial

Richard Pogge at Ohio State touches briefly upon this problem in his astronomy lectures as an analogy to trying to communicate with a putative extraterrestrial culture. We can barely communicate with our own species just a few generations removed. Have you ever tried to talk about technology with your oldest living ancestors (such as your grandparents)? I have, it’s a comedy of errors.

personjerry 4y ago
There's a classic science fiction novel, The Forever War, which explores this idea as well - because of relativity, when the soldier returns from his battles he is speaking almost entirely a different language. Edit: Corrected from Starship Troopers to The Forever War
- NortySpock 4y ago
  I think you are thinking of The Forever War by Joe Haldeman.
  - personjerry 4y ago
    Yes! Thanks for the correction
- hnzix 4y ago
  The Languages Of Pao by Jack Vance is another classic science fiction novel that explores the impact of language on anthropology (the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis). For example, the warrior caste speak a dialect that encourages aggression.
  - euroderf 4y ago
    Another one is Babel 17.
- golem14 4y ago
  Also along these lines: Return from the stars by Stanislaw Lem. Spoiler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_from_the_Stars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_from_the_Stars
- mhh__ 4y ago
  There's also '39 (the queen song) where the relativistic travellers come home and find everyone they've ever known or loved are long dead.
ghaff 4y ago
Although I know people who are grandparents who are probably far more technologically sophisticated than a lot of teenagers are. More generally though, there is just a lot of culture, ways of doing things, lived experience, etc. that are--if not bubbles--more disjoint between different ages and other demographics than not. It's probably really hard for a teenager or young adult in western society to really imagine a world before the internet, smartphones, home computers, etc. and all those imply. You had to watch whatever was on one of three channels at a specific time of night?
- WalterBright 4y ago
  > You had to watch whatever was on one of three channels at a specific time of night? True. But then again, far less TV was watched. There was an occasional good show, the rest was filler that was pure drivel. There's a reason kids played outside with their friends in those days. There was nothing to do in the house. The stations would broadcast a test pattern at night.
  - tragomaskhalos 4y ago
    Looking through and old tabloid newspaper from the early '80s I was amazed to see that the TV listings was just a bare half page showing the names of the programmes, and that was it. Nowadays you have endless recommendations and reviews of what's coming up, and endless analysis of what's been on (e.g. just last night was reading the House Of The Dragon episode recap in the Guardian). What was most striking is that I don't remember TV being so low-key in the culture, nor how it crept up in importance, despite living through the change. Edit: Briton here.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      >What was most striking is that I don't remember TV being so low-key in the culture, nor how it crept up in importance, despite living through the change. TV was anything but low-key in culture. In fact because everyone watched a show at the same time, there was much more cultural synchronization/watercooler talk with respect to shows like MASH or Seinfeld. What did change beginning with maybe the Sopranos was that (a limited slice of) TV became more high culture and displaced film to a certain degree in that regard. (And streaming enabled the sort of serialized drama that was hard to pull off in a fixed time slot broadcast world.) >the TV listings was just a bare half page showing the names of the programmes, and that was it. True, but in the US, TV Guide magazine was I believe the most subscribed to magazine in the country. That's where a lot of people got more detailed (though relatively still quite limited) information from.
cm2187 4y ago
That's massively hyperbolic. I can walk the streets of Rome and understand most of what was written 2000 years ago on the walls, and I was always a mediocre student in Latin, just the latin-derived languages are close enough.
- sammalloy 4y ago
  You’re right, but when you try to explain a cell phone to the most learned Roman, how far do you think you might get?b I’m guessing they will try to have you locked up, or worse.
  - ginko 4y ago
    Eh, just tell them it's a magic trinket that allows you to see and hear others with such a trinket from far apart. It's not like the average person of today's understanding of cell phones is significantly more sophisticated.

personjerry 4y ago

There's a classic science fiction novel, The Forever War, which explores this idea as well - because of relativity, when the soldier returns from his battles he is speaking almost entirely a different language. Edit: Corrected from Starship Troopers to The Forever War

NortySpock 4y ago
I think you are thinking of The Forever War by Joe Haldeman.
- personjerry 4y ago
  Yes! Thanks for the correction
hnzix 4y ago
The Languages Of Pao by Jack Vance is another classic science fiction novel that explores the impact of language on anthropology (the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis). For example, the warrior caste speak a dialect that encourages aggression.
- euroderf 4y ago
  Another one is Babel 17.
golem14 4y ago
Also along these lines: Return from the stars by Stanislaw Lem. Spoiler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_from_the_Stars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_from_the_Stars
mhh__ 4y ago
There's also '39 (the queen song) where the relativistic travellers come home and find everyone they've ever known or loved are long dead.

ghaff 4y ago

Although I know people who are grandparents who are probably far more technologically sophisticated than a lot of teenagers are. More generally though, there is just a lot of culture, ways of doing things, lived experience, etc. that are--if not bubbles--more disjoint between different ages and other demographics than not. It's probably really hard for a teenager or young adult in western society to really imagine a world before the internet, smartphones, home computers, etc. and all those imply. You had to watch whatever was on one of three channels at a specific time of night?

WalterBright 4y ago
> You had to watch whatever was on one of three channels at a specific time of night? True. But then again, far less TV was watched. There was an occasional good show, the rest was filler that was pure drivel. There's a reason kids played outside with their friends in those days. There was nothing to do in the house. The stations would broadcast a test pattern at night.
- tragomaskhalos 4y ago
  Looking through and old tabloid newspaper from the early '80s I was amazed to see that the TV listings was just a bare half page showing the names of the programmes, and that was it. Nowadays you have endless recommendations and reviews of what's coming up, and endless analysis of what's been on (e.g. just last night was reading the House Of The Dragon episode recap in the Guardian). What was most striking is that I don't remember TV being so low-key in the culture, nor how it crept up in importance, despite living through the change. Edit: Briton here.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    >What was most striking is that I don't remember TV being so low-key in the culture, nor how it crept up in importance, despite living through the change. TV was anything but low-key in culture. In fact because everyone watched a show at the same time, there was much more cultural synchronization/watercooler talk with respect to shows like MASH or Seinfeld. What did change beginning with maybe the Sopranos was that (a limited slice of) TV became more high culture and displaced film to a certain degree in that regard. (And streaming enabled the sort of serialized drama that was hard to pull off in a fixed time slot broadcast world.) >the TV listings was just a bare half page showing the names of the programmes, and that was it. True, but in the US, TV Guide magazine was I believe the most subscribed to magazine in the country. That's where a lot of people got more detailed (though relatively still quite limited) information from.

cm2187 4y ago

That's massively hyperbolic. I can walk the streets of Rome and understand most of what was written 2000 years ago on the walls, and I was always a mediocre student in Latin, just the latin-derived languages are close enough.

sammalloy 4y ago
You’re right, but when you try to explain a cell phone to the most learned Roman, how far do you think you might get?b I’m guessing they will try to have you locked up, or worse.
- ginko 4y ago
  Eh, just tell them it's a magic trinket that allows you to see and hear others with such a trinket from far apart. It's not like the average person of today's understanding of cell phones is significantly more sophisticated.