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This ends with > We should do all we can now to prepare a massive political response that might deter Putin from crossing the nuclear line. What would this p

This ends with > We should do all we can now to prepare a massive political response that might deter Putin from crossing the nuclear line. What would this possibly be? At this point, he must be feeling pretty secure that whatever he does he'll just face more scolding There's an article from earlier this year that I wish I could find, that basically says the longer the west waits to stand up to Russia, the worse it will eventually be when we have to. I think this is coming true, and will continue to get worse

AnimalMuppet 4y ago
I don't think that currently the west needs to do more than supply Ukraine all it needs to stand up to Russia. And the west is currently doing that, or very close. I don't see how much more they have to do before you think they're actually standing up.
- superchroma 4y ago
  Many western outlets are still operating in Russia. That should stop immediately. Maybe months ago this was excusable, but now it's not. You don't get to point a gun at the head of the world and also enjoy global fashion and luxuries.
  - newtritious 4y ago
    Q: What can we do to stand up to someone threatening to use nuclear weapons? A: Close our remaining fashion boutiques. Seriously?
    - superchroma 4y ago
      Yes. Q: What can we do to make life uncomfortable for a country invading another country. A: Close fashion boutiques. The fact that companies have sat idle all the way to the point at which nuclear threats are being discussed and still haven't closed is a moral abomination. We have directly seen how much of a motivator the prospect of being conscripted into the Russian army is, with people protesting and criticising the government that previously supported them, at least publically. There is a class of Russian who is comfortable, and they have no right to be. When they are uncomfortable, they will demand change. Westerners should not facilitate that comfort.
      - newtritious 4y ago
        It seems like you genuinely think that closing fashion boutiques will stop Putin from using a nuclear weapon, and you seem to be comparing the loss of these boutiques to being conscripted into the army. I don’t think you are being sensible.
        superchroma 4y ago
        The Russian people will do it themselves when their lives are stripped of everything that makes them worth living. The prospect of being held to their imperialist beliefs and conscripted is enough to turn nationalists against their own government. It can be done, it's merely a question of motivation.
        AnimalMuppet 4y ago
        Sure. But you think that losing fashion boutiques is going to motivate them? I mean sure, it may supply an infinitessimal increment of motivation. Do you think it's really going to be enough to matter?
        newtritious 4y ago
        Closing fashion boutiques isn’t going to do anything to “strip away everything that makes their lives worth living”. It’s a bizarre suggestion that a lack of access western clothing brands could have this effect. There are in fact Russian clothing brands and tailors, who are just as good.
      - version_five 4y ago
        Personally I'm not convinced that continuing to take it out on the russian people in hopes that what, they voted Putin out, or stage a coup, is the best way forward. I'm sure there's been lots of thought put into this already. But like as an extreme, I don't hold the North Korean people, who by all accounts have a very poor standard of living, accountable for not overthrowing their government. I don't think that pushing Russia towards anything like that is good for anyone
- sidibe 4y ago
  Yeah sadly theres nothing much to do besides what's being done and waiting for a lot of Ukrainians and a lot more Russian conscripts to die, basically call Putin's bluffs until he kills himself politically with body bags and the either inner circle feels he is unpopular enough to remove or the dissenting population becomes numerous enough that they actually feel numerous enough to change something.

AnimalMuppet 4y ago

I don't think that currently the west needs to do more than supply Ukraine all it needs to stand up to Russia. And the west is currently doing that, or very close. I don't see how much more they have to do before you think they're actually standing up.

superchroma 4y ago
Many western outlets are still operating in Russia. That should stop immediately. Maybe months ago this was excusable, but now it's not. You don't get to point a gun at the head of the world and also enjoy global fashion and luxuries.
- newtritious 4y ago
  Q: What can we do to stand up to someone threatening to use nuclear weapons? A: Close our remaining fashion boutiques. Seriously?
  - superchroma 4y ago
    Yes. Q: What can we do to make life uncomfortable for a country invading another country. A: Close fashion boutiques. The fact that companies have sat idle all the way to the point at which nuclear threats are being discussed and still haven't closed is a moral abomination. We have directly seen how much of a motivator the prospect of being conscripted into the Russian army is, with people protesting and criticising the government that previously supported them, at least publically. There is a class of Russian who is comfortable, and they have no right to be. When they are uncomfortable, they will demand change. Westerners should not facilitate that comfort.
    - newtritious 4y ago
      It seems like you genuinely think that closing fashion boutiques will stop Putin from using a nuclear weapon, and you seem to be comparing the loss of these boutiques to being conscripted into the army. I don’t think you are being sensible.
      - superchroma 4y ago
        The Russian people will do it themselves when their lives are stripped of everything that makes them worth living. The prospect of being held to their imperialist beliefs and conscripted is enough to turn nationalists against their own government. It can be done, it's merely a question of motivation.
        AnimalMuppet 4y ago
        Sure. But you think that losing fashion boutiques is going to motivate them? I mean sure, it may supply an infinitessimal increment of motivation. Do you think it's really going to be enough to matter?
        newtritious 4y ago
        Closing fashion boutiques isn’t going to do anything to “strip away everything that makes their lives worth living”. It’s a bizarre suggestion that a lack of access western clothing brands could have this effect. There are in fact Russian clothing brands and tailors, who are just as good.
    - version_five 4y ago
      Personally I'm not convinced that continuing to take it out on the russian people in hopes that what, they voted Putin out, or stage a coup, is the best way forward. I'm sure there's been lots of thought put into this already. But like as an extreme, I don't hold the North Korean people, who by all accounts have a very poor standard of living, accountable for not overthrowing their government. I don't think that pushing Russia towards anything like that is good for anyone
sidibe 4y ago
Yeah sadly theres nothing much to do besides what's being done and waiting for a lot of Ukrainians and a lot more Russian conscripts to die, basically call Putin's bluffs until he kills himself politically with body bags and the either inner circle feels he is unpopular enough to remove or the dissenting population becomes numerous enough that they actually feel numerous enough to change something.