4 ms·

No they weren't.

cinntaile 4y ago
I guess it's about time you back up your claims with some sources, your memory from a decennium ago might not be as accurate as you think. Here is the IEA World Energy Outlook from 2010. The presentation is simplified, check out page 11 in [0] for example. As you can see the OECD numbers go down, but the China, India and other developing market numbers go up. Giving us a total increase. You can check out the more in depth IEA report here [1]. [0] https://www.oecd.org/berlin/46389140.pdf https://www.oecd.org/berlin/46389140.pdf [1] https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/1b090169-1c58-4f5d-9451-ee838f6f00e5/weo2010.pdf https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/1b090169-1c58-4f5d-...
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  Sounds like sealioning TBH. No, you can easily refresh your own memory if you've forgotten about it. Coal mines infrastructure and generation everywhere were being called stranded assets, "killed by renewables". Your claim that it was just in the west doesn't make sense because mines in western countries export to China and India etc.
  - cinntaile 4y ago
    > Sounds like sealioning TBH. Why the intellectual dishonesty? Why do you try to discredit what I say, backed by sources, when you rely on nothing but your own fallible memory to back up your claims? Just back up your claims with sources, it's really not that hard. > Your claim that it was just in the west doesn't make sense because mines in western countries export to China and India etc. If you check the previous links that I posted, you will see that coal production in the west has reduced as well.
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      You don't have to come up with sources to everything obvious, that's an intellectually dishonest way to argue. Obviously people were calling coal mines in western countries stranded and dead assets, if you weren't paying attention and don't think that is the case, then it's actually on you to provide evidence for this extraordinary claim. > If you check the previous links that I posted, you will see that coal production in the west has reduced as well. You keep blathering about things that don't address anything I wrote. Go back and actually read what I wrote and have a think about what you're actually trying to say about it before you try again. Coal production in (at least some) western countries, e.g., USA has actually started to increase in the past year or so in response to demand.
      - cinntaile 4y ago
        > Obviously people were calling coal mines in western countries stranded and dead assets, if you weren't paying attention and don't think that is the case, then it's actually on you to provide evidence for this extraordinary claim. That's what I claimed, I'm happy you agree. This claim did not extend towards the rest of the world (so not like you claimed), the consensus among experts was that they would be increasing their coal consumption. This is also what happened. > Coal production in (at least some) western countries, e.g., USA has actually started to increase in the past year or so in response to demand. I don't think anyone missed the gas crisis.
        throwawaylinux 4y ago
        > That's what I claimed, I'm happy you agree. This claim did not extend towards the rest of the world (so not like you claimed), It did ,because western countries export coal to the rest of the world. Look if you can't admit you were parroting that coal was killed by renewables without any understanding of commodity boom/bust cycles or energy demand trajectory the world that's quite understandable it's difficult to face reality, but you don't have to keep at it.
        cinntaile 4y ago
        > It did ,because western countries export coal to the rest of the world. As I said, coal production and consumption in the west has gone down. Coal plants and mines have closed. The trend is downwards. Do you really refuse to accept this when it's what the data says? This is quite worrying I must say, is there some ideological bias at play here? > Look if you can't admit you were parroting that coal was killed by renewables without any understanding of commodity boom/bust cycles or energy demand trajectory the world that's quite understandable it's difficult to face reality, but you don't have to keep at it. Coal is being killed by renewables, nuclear, hydro, gas, ... in the west. Whatever is cheaper tends to win out in the end. All you have to do is look at the data, I even linked it for you. Although it's experiencing a hiccup right now due to the gas crisis. It will obviously take a bit longer for the rest of the world to catch up, even without the current crisis.

No they weren't.

I guess it's about time you back up your claims with some sources, your memory from a decennium ago might not be as accurate as you think. Here is the IEA World Energy Outlook from 2010. The presentation is simplified, check out page 11 in [0] for example. As you can see the OECD numbers go down, but the China, India and other developing market numbers go up. Giving us a total increase. You can check out the more in depth IEA report here [1]. [0] https://www.oecd.org/berlin/46389140.pdf https://www.oecd.org/berlin/46389140.pdf [1] https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/1b090169-1c58-4f5d-9451-ee838f6f00e5/weo2010.pdf https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/1b090169-1c58-4f5d-...

throwawaylinux 4y ago
Sounds like sealioning TBH. No, you can easily refresh your own memory if you've forgotten about it. Coal mines infrastructure and generation everywhere were being called stranded assets, "killed by renewables". Your claim that it was just in the west doesn't make sense because mines in western countries export to China and India etc.
- cinntaile 4y ago
  > Sounds like sealioning TBH. Why the intellectual dishonesty? Why do you try to discredit what I say, backed by sources, when you rely on nothing but your own fallible memory to back up your claims? Just back up your claims with sources, it's really not that hard. > Your claim that it was just in the west doesn't make sense because mines in western countries export to China and India etc. If you check the previous links that I posted, you will see that coal production in the west has reduced as well.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    You don't have to come up with sources to everything obvious, that's an intellectually dishonest way to argue. Obviously people were calling coal mines in western countries stranded and dead assets, if you weren't paying attention and don't think that is the case, then it's actually on you to provide evidence for this extraordinary claim. > If you check the previous links that I posted, you will see that coal production in the west has reduced as well. You keep blathering about things that don't address anything I wrote. Go back and actually read what I wrote and have a think about what you're actually trying to say about it before you try again. Coal production in (at least some) western countries, e.g., USA has actually started to increase in the past year or so in response to demand.
    - cinntaile 4y ago
      > Obviously people were calling coal mines in western countries stranded and dead assets, if you weren't paying attention and don't think that is the case, then it's actually on you to provide evidence for this extraordinary claim. That's what I claimed, I'm happy you agree. This claim did not extend towards the rest of the world (so not like you claimed), the consensus among experts was that they would be increasing their coal consumption. This is also what happened. > Coal production in (at least some) western countries, e.g., USA has actually started to increase in the past year or so in response to demand. I don't think anyone missed the gas crisis.
      - throwawaylinux 4y ago
        > That's what I claimed, I'm happy you agree. This claim did not extend towards the rest of the world (so not like you claimed), It did ,because western countries export coal to the rest of the world. Look if you can't admit you were parroting that coal was killed by renewables without any understanding of commodity boom/bust cycles or energy demand trajectory the world that's quite understandable it's difficult to face reality, but you don't have to keep at it.
        cinntaile 4y ago
        > It did ,because western countries export coal to the rest of the world. As I said, coal production and consumption in the west has gone down. Coal plants and mines have closed. The trend is downwards. Do you really refuse to accept this when it's what the data says? This is quite worrying I must say, is there some ideological bias at play here? > Look if you can't admit you were parroting that coal was killed by renewables without any understanding of commodity boom/bust cycles or energy demand trajectory the world that's quite understandable it's difficult to face reality, but you don't have to keep at it. Coal is being killed by renewables, nuclear, hydro, gas, ... in the west. Whatever is cheaper tends to win out in the end. All you have to do is look at the data, I even linked it for you. Although it's experiencing a hiccup right now due to the gas crisis. It will obviously take a bit longer for the rest of the world to catch up, even without the current crisis.