4 ms·

Short answer: yes. Despite the doomsayers and the fact that you might not know anyone that works in manufacturing, the US is still a manufacturing powerhouse.

Short answer: yes. Despite the doomsayers and the fact that you might not know anyone that works in manufacturing, the US is still a manufacturing powerhouse. https://www.brookings.edu/research/global-manufacturing-scorecard-how-the-us-compares-to-18-other-nations/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/global-manufacturing-scor... At 18% of global manufacturing output already, "a net gain of 67,000 workers above prepandemic levels" is not going to move the needle.

MisterMower 4y ago
It’s all final assembly automotive and aerospace. It’s not real manufacturing. All the real components from screws to relays to sheet metal and injection molded plastic parts are made somewhere other than the US. But yeah, if you export 300 787’s and A320’s each year, you’ll get the false impression the US is a manufacturing “powerhouse.”
- PenguinCoder 4y ago
  Gatekeep much?
  - MisterMower 4y ago
    Refute arguments much? Explain where I’m mistaken.
    - buescher 4y ago
      You're just wrong. Yes, US manufacturing is mostly high-value-add stuff. Because wages are high. Don't go into hock to start a toothpick factory in the USA. But go look up how many people are employed in manufacturing. 67,000 does not move the needle, though it's probably a lot as a percentage of new jobs. And automotive and aerospace are not the two biggest sectors of US manufacturing. (Boeing was the largest exporter for years though, probably still is). Look it up.
      - MisterMower 4y ago
        Is mating two fuselage sections made in Mexico and slapping on engines made in Malaysia manufacturing? Not in my book. That’s assembly, not manufacturing, regardless of how lucrative it may be.
        buescher 4y ago
        You're just wrong. US manufacturing is a lot more than final assembly of airplanes and automobiles. Aerospace and automotive aren't the top manufacturing sectors either. You're just wrong about that. You can look up that you're just wrong, but you're not bothering to. You can look up that final assembly is manufacturing - your book is just wrong. Why should I take "your book" seriously about anything?
        MisterMower 4y ago
        > US manufacturing is a lot more than final assembly of airplanes and automobiles. The truth of the matter is the bulk of the components that matter in those products are made somewhere other than the US. The hard work is done elsewhere. I just replaced a capacitor in my 2009 Maytag washing machine. Original capacitor was made in Mexico. The replacement was from Taiwan. The motor was made in China. Every product "made" in the US is a hodgepodge of imported components. > You can look up that final assembly is manufacturing I don't dispute that that's how it gets measured in official statistics, but I'm telling you it's a misrepresentation of what's actually occurring in industry. I work for an OEM aerospace manufacturer. Fuselages get made in Mexico. Wings get made in Japan. Engines get made in Europe and most parts for them are sourced from Russia, which is causing major shortages right now. Landing gear are forged in Brazil. We used to do it all here in the US, now we have a paint booth and a service center. But hey, final assembly is manufacturing! The US is an industrial powerhouse! Seriously, go look around your house. Show me a piece of furniture or appliance that was made in the US. You can't. You'd be lucky to have one that was assembled in the US. Shoot, your phone and computer probably weren't even made here. And if they were, again, the important parts that took all the work were probably made in Asia. Believe me, I wish I were wrong. I would love to be wrong. But you saying I'm wrong doesn't change reality. Stop believing statistics that are built on lies and start believing what you can clearly see before your very eyes.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
    That’s not gatekeeping, it’s disambiguating disingenuous statistic usage that implies a reality that that dos not exist.
mlsu 4y ago
This statistic is often trotted out. It's in dollars, which is very misleading and forms an incomplete picture of the ecosystem required to have true manufacturing ability. We do final assembly on an automobile and that gets registered as big $$$. But it's actually pretty easy to assemble a bunch of already-made parts. Much more difficult (and quite a lot of skill, built up over decades) to make the fuel pump from raw inputs! We lack completely the lower three-quarters of the pyramid. By this same logic, I did $500 in manufacturing this quarter because I assembled two Billy bookcase... nah. You don't know anyone because... we don't do a lot of manufacturing. The pre-made imported parts come into a handful of Toyota factories, and a whole bunch of very expensive SUVs come out. That's how you can get such a high $$$ number and not know anyone who works manufacturing.
- buescher 4y ago
  Sure, the whole supply chain is not in the US, and less of it is in the US than in past decades. That is not the point. You probably don't know anyone who works in manufacturing because you're in the demographic that reads hackernews. Using the automotive industry as an example is a big tell, you know, because a whole lot more than cars is manufactured in the US. Manufacturing is not a huge percentage of US employment, but it is much, much bigger than you think in raw numbers. Go look it up - 67,000 does not move the needle, though it's a big percentage of new jobs.

MisterMower 4y ago

It’s all final assembly automotive and aerospace. It’s not real manufacturing. All the real components from screws to relays to sheet metal and injection molded plastic parts are made somewhere other than the US. But yeah, if you export 300 787’s and A320’s each year, you’ll get the false impression the US is a manufacturing “powerhouse.”

PenguinCoder 4y ago
Gatekeep much?
- MisterMower 4y ago
  Refute arguments much? Explain where I’m mistaken.
  - buescher 4y ago
    You're just wrong. Yes, US manufacturing is mostly high-value-add stuff. Because wages are high. Don't go into hock to start a toothpick factory in the USA. But go look up how many people are employed in manufacturing. 67,000 does not move the needle, though it's probably a lot as a percentage of new jobs. And automotive and aerospace are not the two biggest sectors of US manufacturing. (Boeing was the largest exporter for years though, probably still is). Look it up.
    - MisterMower 4y ago
      Is mating two fuselage sections made in Mexico and slapping on engines made in Malaysia manufacturing? Not in my book. That’s assembly, not manufacturing, regardless of how lucrative it may be.
      - buescher 4y ago
        You're just wrong. US manufacturing is a lot more than final assembly of airplanes and automobiles. Aerospace and automotive aren't the top manufacturing sectors either. You're just wrong about that. You can look up that you're just wrong, but you're not bothering to. You can look up that final assembly is manufacturing - your book is just wrong. Why should I take "your book" seriously about anything?
        MisterMower 4y ago
        > US manufacturing is a lot more than final assembly of airplanes and automobiles. The truth of the matter is the bulk of the components that matter in those products are made somewhere other than the US. The hard work is done elsewhere. I just replaced a capacitor in my 2009 Maytag washing machine. Original capacitor was made in Mexico. The replacement was from Taiwan. The motor was made in China. Every product "made" in the US is a hodgepodge of imported components. > You can look up that final assembly is manufacturing I don't dispute that that's how it gets measured in official statistics, but I'm telling you it's a misrepresentation of what's actually occurring in industry. I work for an OEM aerospace manufacturer. Fuselages get made in Mexico. Wings get made in Japan. Engines get made in Europe and most parts for them are sourced from Russia, which is causing major shortages right now. Landing gear are forged in Brazil. We used to do it all here in the US, now we have a paint booth and a service center. But hey, final assembly is manufacturing! The US is an industrial powerhouse! Seriously, go look around your house. Show me a piece of furniture or appliance that was made in the US. You can't. You'd be lucky to have one that was assembled in the US. Shoot, your phone and computer probably weren't even made here. And if they were, again, the important parts that took all the work were probably made in Asia. Believe me, I wish I were wrong. I would love to be wrong. But you saying I'm wrong doesn't change reality. Stop believing statistics that are built on lies and start believing what you can clearly see before your very eyes.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
  That’s not gatekeeping, it’s disambiguating disingenuous statistic usage that implies a reality that that dos not exist.

mlsu 4y ago

This statistic is often trotted out. It's in dollars, which is very misleading and forms an incomplete picture of the ecosystem required to have true manufacturing ability. We do final assembly on an automobile and that gets registered as big $$$. But it's actually pretty easy to assemble a bunch of already-made parts. Much more difficult (and quite a lot of skill, built up over decades) to make the fuel pump from raw inputs! We lack completely the lower three-quarters of the pyramid. By this same logic, I did $500 in manufacturing this quarter because I assembled two Billy bookcase... nah. You don't know anyone because... we don't do a lot of manufacturing. The pre-made imported parts come into a handful of Toyota factories, and a whole bunch of very expensive SUVs come out. That's how you can get such a high $$$ number and not know anyone who works manufacturing.

buescher 4y ago
Sure, the whole supply chain is not in the US, and less of it is in the US than in past decades. That is not the point. You probably don't know anyone who works in manufacturing because you're in the demographic that reads hackernews. Using the automotive industry as an example is a big tell, you know, because a whole lot more than cars is manufactured in the US. Manufacturing is not a huge percentage of US employment, but it is much, much bigger than you think in raw numbers. Go look it up - 67,000 does not move the needle, though it's a big percentage of new jobs.