6 ms·

Anyone going to jail? Money means nothing if they get charged a fraction of what they made in profits...

by pGuitar 4y ago

CountSessine 4y ago
Their net income for 2021 was $1058M on about $10B of revenue, so this mostly wipes out 1 year of profits. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- pGuitar 4y ago
  Not sure how long they have been doing this, but even if it was only one year, the fine is too small.
  - dd36 4y ago
    It should be profits plus executive compensation. Profits are too easily manipulated.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    And what is the right size?
    - weaksauce 4y ago
      enough so it's not just an expense they can pencil in the books for the next time they do it.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        Everything is an expense no matter what. Even if you were to have prison time or capital punishment, that is just an expense to someone else. E.g. How much for a fall guy
    - criddell 4y ago
      They should lose patent protection on the drugs involved in the kickback scheme.
      - yieldcrv 4y ago
        That actually might be an interesting deterrent worth pursuing. The President and perhaps Secretary of Commerce could probably tell the US Patent Office what to do, such as invalidate a patent. Although the constitution grants these discretionary monopolies, it doesn't stipulate how, with patents being a coincidence by Congress to fulfill that and the "limited time" aspect of that article of the constitution is already fulfilled.
      - refurb 4y ago
        They don’t need a new punishment. If found guilty, you can be banned from doing any business with Medicare and Medicaid in the US - that’s already a part of the law and it’s the same as losing 50% of your revenue in perpetuity. But it’s never used. Well, they used it on Pfizer, but the agreement was the ban was for a shell company they owned that didn’t actually sell any drugs. A sacrificial lamb if you will. “A Pfizer subsidiary, Pharmacia and Upjohn Inc., which was acquired in 2003, has agreed to plead guilty to one count of felony misbranding.” https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2009/09/03/pfizer-must-pay-2-3/23707079007/ https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2009/09/03/pfizer-must-p...
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - missedthecue 4y ago
    According to the article, it occured between 2009 and 2014. Not sure exactly how much profit they made off of it and it's probably not easy to find out, but of the three drugs they marketed in unlawful ways, Tysabri for instance had US sales of $58m in the 08-09 year. And that's sales not pure profit after costs.
    - CountSessine 4y ago
      Ask and ye shall receive: Biogen annual net income for the year ending... 2010-June-30: $1094M 2011-June-30: $1076M 2012-June-30: $1342M 2013-June-30: $1608M 2014-June-30: $2140M 2015-June-30: $3490M Also, because someone asked, edgar has a bar chart breakdown of Biogen's product revenue. The lawsuit was about Biogen's drugs Avonex, Tysabri and Tecfidera. The bar chart (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/875045/000087504515000005/biib-2014pincipalproduct.jpg https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/875045/0000875045150...) seems to indicate that these three were responsible for about 80-83% of Biogen's revenues (and presumably net income?) in 2014. I guess what we don't know is what their sales would have been like without the kickbacks? Less, presumably? But 0? Probably not.
beachy 4y ago
> The claims resolved by the settlement are allegations only and there has been no determination of liability. Not only not going to jail, but didn't even acknowledge any wrongdoing.
daniel-cussen 4y ago
So in fact, when a corporation does something disgustingly criminal, like Abbott did to me twice, with Depakote and Clozapine, second time I was wise to their shit, dodged their shit, they sell shit, they're shit salesmen. Door to door. Knock knock who's there? A shit salesman. A shit salesman who? Abbott, we're doing another round poisoning you in a way that we know is wrong but will not be provable for 8 years, you want this? You have to swallow every single time if you consent! And by the way, you can't get eat enough to not lose weight (at a waist size 32) until you consent, we'll ask you 70 times, and if not you're on the street! Remember, always swallow because we have a swallowing fetish. So legally you're always allowed to dodge, the swallowing fetish is because it's an experiment on dosing 100% of a group, in this case a rehab, diametrically against their will and obviously against their interest. It's a "fuck the Law" context. A preparation for rehab, see what the objections were and how to overcome them. I said fetish for swallowing, that's literally what it is. They aren't legally allowed any any of the shit they do, at Clinica Rayencura, like dude saw them bribing police, whatever the fuck. Police hanging out, getting bribed, just hanging out, because they chased "fugitives" who escaped, which is also totally legal, and captured them, and sent them to a weird clinic and injected them with...with whatever. At a certain point, you gotta accept you'll get dosed and the purity of your blood is in GOD's hands, or some shit, I don't know. So these shrinks in fact stop GOD from getting into their wards, only prison with no Bibles, you can't go to mass on Sunday or even think of doing so, what else...no they let you pray, they don't fuck with that...what else...dude check your mouth and ask you to stick out your tongue to prove you swallowed, that says it all. And that pill, clozapine, diminished thought, made time go by faster, starved the brain to feed the body fat, people's weight doubled on that shit, disgusting. Automatic obesity. But there was consent! Signature, you consented to this once, that's what you have to swallow every night! So obviously if Abbott tries to poison me again, like I'm going to read the brand name, dude get real, woafs (wastes of a fuck) will poison you until they get shut down...or until they get told "your company is imprisoned, all your staff have to work out of a prison every day under surveillance, cavity search daily, no quitting no hiring, it's forced labor like ordinary prison, you go home at night, that's what you get, anybody who didn't denounce it". The real corporate jail penalty. Only survivor in the rehab. Only one who didn't gain 40 pounds. The alpha. EDIT: downvotes are upvotes. So what I say sounds like paranoid or whatever but yeah duh that's how I didn't get fat. Only the paranoid survive? Only the paranoid stay skinny.

Anyone going to jail? Money means nothing if they get charged a fraction of what they made in profits...

CountSessine 4y ago

Their net income for 2021 was $1058M on about $10B of revenue, so this mostly wipes out 1 year of profits. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

pGuitar 4y ago
Not sure how long they have been doing this, but even if it was only one year, the fine is too small.
- dd36 4y ago
  It should be profits plus executive compensation. Profits are too easily manipulated.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  And what is the right size?
  - weaksauce 4y ago
    enough so it's not just an expense they can pencil in the books for the next time they do it.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      Everything is an expense no matter what. Even if you were to have prison time or capital punishment, that is just an expense to someone else. E.g. How much for a fall guy
  - criddell 4y ago
    They should lose patent protection on the drugs involved in the kickback scheme.
    - yieldcrv 4y ago
      That actually might be an interesting deterrent worth pursuing. The President and perhaps Secretary of Commerce could probably tell the US Patent Office what to do, such as invalidate a patent. Although the constitution grants these discretionary monopolies, it doesn't stipulate how, with patents being a coincidence by Congress to fulfill that and the "limited time" aspect of that article of the constitution is already fulfilled.
    - refurb 4y ago
      They don’t need a new punishment. If found guilty, you can be banned from doing any business with Medicare and Medicaid in the US - that’s already a part of the law and it’s the same as losing 50% of your revenue in perpetuity. But it’s never used. Well, they used it on Pfizer, but the agreement was the ban was for a shell company they owned that didn’t actually sell any drugs. A sacrificial lamb if you will. “A Pfizer subsidiary, Pharmacia and Upjohn Inc., which was acquired in 2003, has agreed to plead guilty to one count of felony misbranding.” https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2009/09/03/pfizer-must-pay-2-3/23707079007/ https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2009/09/03/pfizer-must-p...
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- missedthecue 4y ago
  According to the article, it occured between 2009 and 2014. Not sure exactly how much profit they made off of it and it's probably not easy to find out, but of the three drugs they marketed in unlawful ways, Tysabri for instance had US sales of $58m in the 08-09 year. And that's sales not pure profit after costs.
  - CountSessine 4y ago
    Ask and ye shall receive: Biogen annual net income for the year ending... 2010-June-30: $1094M 2011-June-30: $1076M 2012-June-30: $1342M 2013-June-30: $1608M 2014-June-30: $2140M 2015-June-30: $3490M Also, because someone asked, edgar has a bar chart breakdown of Biogen's product revenue. The lawsuit was about Biogen's drugs Avonex, Tysabri and Tecfidera. The bar chart (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/875045/000087504515000005/biib-2014pincipalproduct.jpg https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/875045/0000875045150...) seems to indicate that these three were responsible for about 80-83% of Biogen's revenues (and presumably net income?) in 2014. I guess what we don't know is what their sales would have been like without the kickbacks? Less, presumably? But 0? Probably not.

beachy 4y ago

> The claims resolved by the settlement are allegations only and there has been no determination of liability. Not only not going to jail, but didn't even acknowledge any wrongdoing.

daniel-cussen 4y ago

So in fact, when a corporation does something disgustingly criminal, like Abbott did to me twice, with Depakote and Clozapine, second time I was wise to their shit, dodged their shit, they sell shit, they're shit salesmen. Door to door. Knock knock who's there? A shit salesman. A shit salesman who? Abbott, we're doing another round poisoning you in a way that we know is wrong but will not be provable for 8 years, you want this? You have to swallow every single time if you consent! And by the way, you can't get eat enough to not lose weight (at a waist size 32) until you consent, we'll ask you 70 times, and if not you're on the street! Remember, always swallow because we have a swallowing fetish. So legally you're always allowed to dodge, the swallowing fetish is because it's an experiment on dosing 100% of a group, in this case a rehab, diametrically against their will and obviously against their interest. It's a "fuck the Law" context. A preparation for rehab, see what the objections were and how to overcome them. I said fetish for swallowing, that's literally what it is. They aren't legally allowed any any of the shit they do, at Clinica Rayencura, like dude saw them bribing police, whatever the fuck. Police hanging out, getting bribed, just hanging out, because they chased "fugitives" who escaped, which is also totally legal, and captured them, and sent them to a weird clinic and injected them with...with whatever. At a certain point, you gotta accept you'll get dosed and the purity of your blood is in GOD's hands, or some shit, I don't know. So these shrinks in fact stop GOD from getting into their wards, only prison with no Bibles, you can't go to mass on Sunday or even think of doing so, what else...no they let you pray, they don't fuck with that...what else...dude check your mouth and ask you to stick out your tongue to prove you swallowed, that says it all. And that pill, clozapine, diminished thought, made time go by faster, starved the brain to feed the body fat, people's weight doubled on that shit, disgusting. Automatic obesity. But there was consent! Signature, you consented to this once, that's what you have to swallow every night! So obviously if Abbott tries to poison me again, like I'm going to read the brand name, dude get real, woafs (wastes of a fuck) will poison you until they get shut down...or until they get told "your company is imprisoned, all your staff have to work out of a prison every day under surveillance, cavity search daily, no quitting no hiring, it's forced labor like ordinary prison, you go home at night, that's what you get, anybody who didn't denounce it". The real corporate jail penalty. Only survivor in the rehab. Only one who didn't gain 40 pounds. The alpha. EDIT: downvotes are upvotes. So what I say sounds like paranoid or whatever but yeah duh that's how I didn't get fat. Only the paranoid survive? Only the paranoid stay skinny.