5 ms·

Zero tolerance blacklisting of cheaters is probably the best way forward. If neither Niemann nor Carlsen recant, then I predict chess will fall into general d

Zero tolerance blacklisting of cheaters is probably the best way forward. If neither Niemann nor Carlsen recant, then I predict chess will fall into general disrepute like baseball or billiards. The way for the professional chess community to salvage this situation is with zero tolerance blacklisting of anybody caught cheating, even as a teenager.

School-Cotton 4y ago
Baseball is in general disrepute? TIL.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  The rampant doping got so bad they had a highly publicized congressional hearing about it. I doubt it ever stopped. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_baseball#Congressional_investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_baseball#Congression...
  - School-Cotton 4y ago
    True, but IMO doping is much less of an existential threat to the game than computer-assisted cheating is for chess.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      There was also some sign stealing scandal but I didn’t pay much attention. And the umpires are the dirtiest cheaters of all and always win.
  - duderific 4y ago
    It may not have stopped entirely, but there are much better safeguards in place, and it's pretty obvious based on power hitting statistics (home runs mainly) that it's not even close to as bad as it was in the 90's and early 2000's. The penalties for getting caught doping are quite high. Most recently, superstar San Diego Padres player Fernando Tatis Jr. was suspended for 80 games after testing positive for steroid use. [1] [1] https://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/steroids_baseball.shtml https://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/steroids_baseball...
- bombcar 4y ago
  It's fun to watch perhaps, but the world-wide mania over record chasing seems to have entirely died with the steroid usage around the Bonds era.
- asimpletune 4y ago
  At one point in time they would literally fix the World Series. This was a long time ago, but yeah, baseball had big issues with integrity. The steroids thing is nothing compared to how bad it used to be.
hyperhopper 4y ago
> fall into general disrepute like baseball or billiards Could you elaborate, especially on billiards? I had heard a 99PI episode about baseball cheating, but thought it was more isolated incidents and not general disrepute. I enjoy playing pool but know nothing about the professional scene or cheating.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  I don't know about high-level billiards, but low level billiards is basically synonymous with hustling and cheating (aka sharking.) Pool sharking is so widespread and infamous, I think it casts the entire sport in a sleazy light. With baseball, a lot of high level players have gotten caught or admitted it, and have said that it's widespread. Jose Canseco admitted to cheating and claimed as much as 80% of players use steroids. He specifically accused Alex Rodriquez, which was later proven true. Allegations like these from admitted/caught cheats might be attempts to justify themselves, but personally I think cheating is and has been rampant in baseball for a very long time. It's still fun to watch though.
  - SamReidHughes 4y ago
    Steroid use wasn't banned by the MLB until after Canseco's career.
    - areyousure 4y ago
      In case anyone is curious, Canseco played in the MLB from 1985 to 2001. It is unclear when the MLB banned steroids, but some possible years include 1990--1991, 1997, or somewhere around 2003--2005. Note, however, that steroid use was made effectively illegal on a federal level in the United States in 1990. The 1991 date above references a memo from the commissioner that states that illegal drugs are "strictly prohibited". Steroids are mentioned explicitly, though they do not have to be, seeing as how they were in fact illegal. You can read the memo here: https://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/format/memos20051109 https://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/format/memos20051109
- 4y ago
erfgh 4y ago
What is wrong with billiards? It's pretty hard to cheat and not get caught there, although it happens every once in a while.

School-Cotton 4y ago

Baseball is in general disrepute? TIL.

MichaelCollins 4y ago
The rampant doping got so bad they had a highly publicized congressional hearing about it. I doubt it ever stopped. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_baseball#Congressional_investigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_baseball#Congression...
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  True, but IMO doping is much less of an existential threat to the game than computer-assisted cheating is for chess.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    There was also some sign stealing scandal but I didn’t pay much attention. And the umpires are the dirtiest cheaters of all and always win.
- duderific 4y ago
  It may not have stopped entirely, but there are much better safeguards in place, and it's pretty obvious based on power hitting statistics (home runs mainly) that it's not even close to as bad as it was in the 90's and early 2000's. The penalties for getting caught doping are quite high. Most recently, superstar San Diego Padres player Fernando Tatis Jr. was suspended for 80 games after testing positive for steroid use. [1] [1] https://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/steroids_baseball.shtml https://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/steroids_baseball...
bombcar 4y ago
It's fun to watch perhaps, but the world-wide mania over record chasing seems to have entirely died with the steroid usage around the Bonds era.
asimpletune 4y ago
At one point in time they would literally fix the World Series. This was a long time ago, but yeah, baseball had big issues with integrity. The steroids thing is nothing compared to how bad it used to be.

hyperhopper 4y ago

> fall into general disrepute like baseball or billiards Could you elaborate, especially on billiards? I had heard a 99PI episode about baseball cheating, but thought it was more isolated incidents and not general disrepute. I enjoy playing pool but know nothing about the professional scene or cheating.

MichaelCollins 4y ago
I don't know about high-level billiards, but low level billiards is basically synonymous with hustling and cheating (aka sharking.) Pool sharking is so widespread and infamous, I think it casts the entire sport in a sleazy light. With baseball, a lot of high level players have gotten caught or admitted it, and have said that it's widespread. Jose Canseco admitted to cheating and claimed as much as 80% of players use steroids. He specifically accused Alex Rodriquez, which was later proven true. Allegations like these from admitted/caught cheats might be attempts to justify themselves, but personally I think cheating is and has been rampant in baseball for a very long time. It's still fun to watch though.
- SamReidHughes 4y ago
  Steroid use wasn't banned by the MLB until after Canseco's career.
  - areyousure 4y ago
    In case anyone is curious, Canseco played in the MLB from 1985 to 2001. It is unclear when the MLB banned steroids, but some possible years include 1990--1991, 1997, or somewhere around 2003--2005. Note, however, that steroid use was made effectively illegal on a federal level in the United States in 1990. The 1991 date above references a memo from the commissioner that states that illegal drugs are "strictly prohibited". Steroids are mentioned explicitly, though they do not have to be, seeing as how they were in fact illegal. You can read the memo here: https://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/format/memos20051109 https://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/format/memos20051109
4y ago

erfgh 4y ago

What is wrong with billiards? It's pretty hard to cheat and not get caught there, although it happens every once in a while.