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What i think should happen is, Hans should play in tournaments which have much more security, and play against Magnus. If he did cheat it should be really obvio

What i think should happen is, Hans should play in tournaments which have much more security, and play against Magnus. If he did cheat it should be really obvious because his performance will suddenly drop. If he didn’t than he will play the same, but now with the added security he won’t have to face unbacked accusations, and there is no excuse for Magnus to refuse to play with Hans like he has been doing now. Even if Hans really did cheat, if there is no credible evidence you can’t fault him. And IMO it’s not enough that he cheated many years ago. Right now all the criticism he’s getting is unfair because it’s based on speculation.

Someone 4y ago
If he were a computer, that would work. Being a human, the added stress of “this game will be used to decide whether I will be considered a cheater” may be enough to make him perform worse than he did before.
kjerkegor 4y ago
> If he did cheat it should be really obvious because his performance will suddenly drop I mean, Magnus is so much more better player than Hans that even if Hans didn't cheat he would probably be worse in rematch. But in all sports sometimes underdogs win. In couple yt videos i watched it was said that Magnus played bad game and that Hans already gained an advantage in opening. Hans said that he prepared opening play but if he is indeed a cheater he maybe used engine just for opening. We'll probably never get an answer if there was cheating or not
- roflyear 4y ago
  Of course he used an engine for the opening. Before the game, 100% certain he did.
- armchairhacker 4y ago
  Maybe he will get away with it if he only cheated against Magnus, and only in that one match. Because it's perfectly reasonable for him to play against Magnus many more times and lost. But if he cheated a lot more (as Magnus seems to allege) then he'll also lose to others he used to beat easily. EDIT: I think a big issue with chess is this "perfection" mentality. Magnus cannot make a single mistake or lose a single game without it being a big show. Hans beating Magnus this one time, even though he was playing against black, should basically mean nothing - Magnus can probably beat Hans 10 times over. If Hans was beating Magnus 10 times it would be different - but also if he was on a streak to Magnus 10 times he would be playing with a lot more scrutiny.
  - roflyear 4y ago
    The guy has beating top-50 players in short time controls. In all kinds of settings (casual, tournaments, online). You don't do that if you're not a strong player.
jVinc 4y ago
But why though? Lets assume just for the sake of argument that Magnus has insider information from chess.com making him 98% certain that Niemann is cheating. Why would he hand him a game that's going to be watched worldwide, where Magnus has nothing to win. Since if he wins we really still don't know anything one way or the other. But he also has everything to lose. If Hans is cheating and manages to pull off something again, then Magnus is cripeling his own reputation. Magnus seems to be doing the right thing here, which is voicing his concerns, refusing to play him, and asking Niemann for permission to speak on the matter fully. Niemann is doing what you'd expect of a cheater, which is to stay quiet, dismiss the discussions, having difficulty explaining his plays, and pretty much just holding back from letting chess.com or Magnus divulge what information they have from the inside of his bans.
lumb63 4y ago
Didn’t he play the remainder of the tournament he beat Magnus in, and proceed to lose six straight under heightened security against worse players?
- songeater 4y ago
  not quite, but he didn't win again: https://chess-results.com/tnr670809.aspx?lan=1&art=2 https://chess-results.com/tnr670809.aspx?lan=1&art=2
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  Given how the internet was reacting to Magnus allegations at the time, I marvel that the kid managed to actually finish the tournament without entirely crumbling. The amount of abuse being thrown at Niemann is nothing short of frightening.

Someone 4y ago

If he were a computer, that would work. Being a human, the added stress of “this game will be used to decide whether I will be considered a cheater” may be enough to make him perform worse than he did before.

kjerkegor 4y ago

> If he did cheat it should be really obvious because his performance will suddenly drop I mean, Magnus is so much more better player than Hans that even if Hans didn't cheat he would probably be worse in rematch. But in all sports sometimes underdogs win. In couple yt videos i watched it was said that Magnus played bad game and that Hans already gained an advantage in opening. Hans said that he prepared opening play but if he is indeed a cheater he maybe used engine just for opening. We'll probably never get an answer if there was cheating or not

roflyear 4y ago
Of course he used an engine for the opening. Before the game, 100% certain he did.
armchairhacker 4y ago
Maybe he will get away with it if he only cheated against Magnus, and only in that one match. Because it's perfectly reasonable for him to play against Magnus many more times and lost. But if he cheated a lot more (as Magnus seems to allege) then he'll also lose to others he used to beat easily. EDIT: I think a big issue with chess is this "perfection" mentality. Magnus cannot make a single mistake or lose a single game without it being a big show. Hans beating Magnus this one time, even though he was playing against black, should basically mean nothing - Magnus can probably beat Hans 10 times over. If Hans was beating Magnus 10 times it would be different - but also if he was on a streak to Magnus 10 times he would be playing with a lot more scrutiny.
- roflyear 4y ago
  The guy has beating top-50 players in short time controls. In all kinds of settings (casual, tournaments, online). You don't do that if you're not a strong player.

jVinc 4y ago

But why though? Lets assume just for the sake of argument that Magnus has insider information from chess.com making him 98% certain that Niemann is cheating. Why would he hand him a game that's going to be watched worldwide, where Magnus has nothing to win. Since if he wins we really still don't know anything one way or the other. But he also has everything to lose. If Hans is cheating and manages to pull off something again, then Magnus is cripeling his own reputation. Magnus seems to be doing the right thing here, which is voicing his concerns, refusing to play him, and asking Niemann for permission to speak on the matter fully. Niemann is doing what you'd expect of a cheater, which is to stay quiet, dismiss the discussions, having difficulty explaining his plays, and pretty much just holding back from letting chess.com or Magnus divulge what information they have from the inside of his bans.

lumb63 4y ago

Didn’t he play the remainder of the tournament he beat Magnus in, and proceed to lose six straight under heightened security against worse players?

songeater 4y ago
not quite, but he didn't win again: https://chess-results.com/tnr670809.aspx?lan=1&art=2 https://chess-results.com/tnr670809.aspx?lan=1&art=2
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
Given how the internet was reacting to Magnus allegations at the time, I marvel that the kid managed to actually finish the tournament without entirely crumbling. The amount of abuse being thrown at Niemann is nothing short of frightening.