3 ms·

I am very sorry to see this position being posted. Niemann has been caught cheating in chess twice before, less than three years ago. He should never have been

by ouid 4y ago

I am very sorry to see this position being posted. Niemann has been caught cheating in chess twice before, less than three years ago. He should never have been allowed to play in the cup. It was FIDE's decision not to collect the concrete evidence that would have caught him in the first place, and we must make do with the circumstantial evidence. As it stands, Niemann is a demonstrated cheater, and has more to gain by cheating in a game against the world champion than at any other time. It is very unlikey that Hans only cheated exactly the two times he was caught, and his failure to produce other instances than the times when he was caught are a mark against him. Remember that we are not giving him the death penalty, we are just trying to establish which scenario is more likely. It is important to be able to render most likely judgments based on incomplete information. Its not a courtroom.

jfengel 4y ago
Niemann has admitted cheating, but only in online chess, not over the board. That's not to say he should be allowed to play, but only to note that live play is kind of a different ball game compared to doing it online. Online, it's you alone in a room (with a second computer). Similar cheating over the board would require some kind of hidden communications device, and probably an assistant.
- petilon 4y ago
  > Niemann has admitted cheating, but only in online chess, not over the board. That's a distinction without a difference.
  - roflyear 4y ago
    Wrong. I've stolen things (I'm sure you have too - theft can be really small!) does that mean I should be labeled a thief in perpetuity? Beyond that, does it mean that I should be publicly shamed for it? Come on. You people need a heart.
    - petilon 4y ago
      If you have a criminal record, you will not be hired into certain jobs. Try getting a job in a cloud vendor such as AWS, Azure or GCP. They do background checks for a reason — you will have access to customer data of banks, the CIA, and other high-risk data. These cloud vendors have controls, and one of the controls is to not hire people who don't pass background checks. So yes, if you have admitted to cheating in chess in the past, you lose certain privileges, such as competing in world chess championship.
      - roflyear 4y ago
        If we're conflating this with crimes, then Magnus is doubly in the wrong - we have standards for innocence until proven guilty. Where is the proof? There's a reason why things like this are in different categories. I could have been an alcoholic for years, but I shouldn't be branded as one forever to everyone I meet, etc.. it's just wrong. Totally immoral.
        petilon 4y ago
        It is not possible to prove unless the Chess Federation subjects players to cavity search. I don't think the Chess Federation wants to set such an extreme precedent. So, the alternative is to exclude people who have admitted to cheating in the past. That's not wrong or immoral. Cheating is immoral. Losing some privileges goes with the territory and should be expected.
        roflyear 4y ago
        Correct, it is not possible to prove. If Magnus had anything - anything - other than "I felt this way" and "he seems too chill" I would suspect something. Those things could be: - Hans was walking weird (something in his shoe) - He was making weird movements - He was distracted, or similar, indicating he's messing with some device etc... then sure. Magnus did not say these things, and that is telling. What I believe happened is Magnus (someone who has presented a lot of anxiety in the past - see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR-4_ouXUV4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR-4_ouXUV4 but easy to find other examples) was really nervous that Hans may be cheating, and that impacted Magnus's play (he played a very poor game).
- ouid 4y ago
  The largest state that we have successfully managed to isolate from communication with the rest of the universe is on the order of 15 qubits. I think you do not appreciate just how easy it is to get information through a channel. Or rather how difficult it would be to prove that such a channel was used. This is, however, irrelevant. Hans Niemann is a chess cheat. Allowing him to set the narrative to "I've only cheated online" is the same as allowing him to set the narrative to "I've only ever cheated while wearing green clothes".
  - roflyear 4y ago
    - samatman 4y ago
      I palmed a candy bar a couple times as a kid, sure, out with bad company. I've never cheated on a game, even a casual one. I would never respect someone who did. You obviously have, and I don't respect you.
      - roflyear 4y ago
        Ridiculous. I don't respect you either. You seem like an asshole.
        dang 4y ago
        Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please don't post like this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you've been breaking the HN guidelines a ton lately. If you keep that up, we're going to have to ban you. Please review the rules and stick to them so we don't have to do that.
        roflyear 4y ago
        I feel I only respond to people like that who first respond that way to me. Oh well, I will stop doing that. Thanks!

by ouid 4y ago

jfengel 4y ago

Niemann has admitted cheating, but only in online chess, not over the board. That's not to say he should be allowed to play, but only to note that live play is kind of a different ball game compared to doing it online. Online, it's you alone in a room (with a second computer). Similar cheating over the board would require some kind of hidden communications device, and probably an assistant.

petilon 4y ago
> Niemann has admitted cheating, but only in online chess, not over the board. That's a distinction without a difference.
- roflyear 4y ago
  Wrong. I've stolen things (I'm sure you have too - theft can be really small!) does that mean I should be labeled a thief in perpetuity? Beyond that, does it mean that I should be publicly shamed for it? Come on. You people need a heart.
  - petilon 4y ago
    If you have a criminal record, you will not be hired into certain jobs. Try getting a job in a cloud vendor such as AWS, Azure or GCP. They do background checks for a reason — you will have access to customer data of banks, the CIA, and other high-risk data. These cloud vendors have controls, and one of the controls is to not hire people who don't pass background checks. So yes, if you have admitted to cheating in chess in the past, you lose certain privileges, such as competing in world chess championship.
    - roflyear 4y ago
      If we're conflating this with crimes, then Magnus is doubly in the wrong - we have standards for innocence until proven guilty. Where is the proof? There's a reason why things like this are in different categories. I could have been an alcoholic for years, but I shouldn't be branded as one forever to everyone I meet, etc.. it's just wrong. Totally immoral.
      - petilon 4y ago
        It is not possible to prove unless the Chess Federation subjects players to cavity search. I don't think the Chess Federation wants to set such an extreme precedent. So, the alternative is to exclude people who have admitted to cheating in the past. That's not wrong or immoral. Cheating is immoral. Losing some privileges goes with the territory and should be expected.
        roflyear 4y ago
        Correct, it is not possible to prove. If Magnus had anything - anything - other than "I felt this way" and "he seems too chill" I would suspect something. Those things could be: - Hans was walking weird (something in his shoe) - He was making weird movements - He was distracted, or similar, indicating he's messing with some device etc... then sure. Magnus did not say these things, and that is telling. What I believe happened is Magnus (someone who has presented a lot of anxiety in the past - see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR-4_ouXUV4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR-4_ouXUV4 but easy to find other examples) was really nervous that Hans may be cheating, and that impacted Magnus's play (he played a very poor game).
ouid 4y ago
The largest state that we have successfully managed to isolate from communication with the rest of the universe is on the order of 15 qubits. I think you do not appreciate just how easy it is to get information through a channel. Or rather how difficult it would be to prove that such a channel was used. This is, however, irrelevant. Hans Niemann is a chess cheat. Allowing him to set the narrative to "I've only cheated online" is the same as allowing him to set the narrative to "I've only ever cheated while wearing green clothes".
- roflyear 4y ago
  - samatman 4y ago
    I palmed a candy bar a couple times as a kid, sure, out with bad company. I've never cheated on a game, even a casual one. I would never respect someone who did. You obviously have, and I don't respect you.
    - roflyear 4y ago
      Ridiculous. I don't respect you either. You seem like an asshole.
      - dang 4y ago
        Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please don't post like this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you've been breaking the HN guidelines a ton lately. If you keep that up, we're going to have to ban you. Please review the rules and stick to them so we don't have to do that.
        roflyear 4y ago
        I feel I only respond to people like that who first respond that way to me. Oh well, I will stop doing that. Thanks!