5 ms·

Europe can’t catch a break. God speed.

xwdv 4y ago
- synergyS 4y ago
  Energy prices skyrocketed in 2022 :(
- croes 4y ago
  The bigger problem is the food and energy prices for poorer countries. Europe won't have a real problem compared to them.
  - xwdv 4y ago
    Was told it’s not a problem, still plenty of cheap food to eat and no one will really freeze to death anyway because they have alternative ways to stay warm.
    - croes 4y ago
      Not all of them https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-07/pakistan-s-1-billion-gas-tender-flop-to-worsen-energy-crisis https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-07/pakistan-... That's also the reason many states do not participate in sanctions against Russia.
- swayvil 4y ago
  If you aren't poor then you have nothing to worry about.
btilly 4y ago
A cold snap and limited supplies of gas would be miserable for Europe. However the backlash against mobilization will hopefully take Putin out of power, end the Ukraine war, and result in fresh supplies of gas for Europe.
- croes 4y ago
  No, even if Putin is gone they can't just start buying russian gas again. Who knows who comes after Putin.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    If Russia remains economically isolated after Putin is ousted, wouldn't that worsen the odds of positive political reform in Russia? Economic sanctions are the stick, but if they continue even after Putin is gone, where is the carrot? If the new leader proves themselves bad as well, the sanctions should obviously be resumed.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      Won't it increase the odds of positive political reform in Europe and elsewhere, if they have energy independence rather than being beholden to dictatorial petrostates? It seems like a worthwhile goal even outside of the environmental benefits.
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago
        That seems another matter to me. Are the sanctions against Russia meant to change Russia's warmongering behavior, or are they meant to save the environment? At present these motivations seem to align, but if the political situation in Russia changes that may no longer be the case.
        SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        > Are the sanctions against Russia meant to change Russia's warmongering behavior, or are they meant to save the environment? it is, as I said above, not an either-or. The environmental benefits (which might be a good step, but will not be in themselves enough to "save" anyone) are outside of the consideration, and not the matter at hand. I thought that was clearly phrased. Rather, removing Russia, or other petrostates ability to blackmail with energy supply, makes them less likely to warmonger. Russia's warmongering is very much supported with oil and gas leverage - i.e. threats of "don't interfere or you'll go cold". Like the other reply says - if bullies no longer have a hold over you, you'll get less bullying. It's a poor assumption that Russian leadership will be better or even different in nature any time soon, Putin or not. And it's good for European domestic politics as well, to be less concerned with appeasing other powers, especially dictators.

xwdv 4y ago

synergyS 4y ago
Energy prices skyrocketed in 2022 :(
croes 4y ago
The bigger problem is the food and energy prices for poorer countries. Europe won't have a real problem compared to them.
- xwdv 4y ago
  Was told it’s not a problem, still plenty of cheap food to eat and no one will really freeze to death anyway because they have alternative ways to stay warm.
  - croes 4y ago
    Not all of them https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-07/pakistan-s-1-billion-gas-tender-flop-to-worsen-energy-crisis https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-07/pakistan-... That's also the reason many states do not participate in sanctions against Russia.
swayvil 4y ago
If you aren't poor then you have nothing to worry about.

A cold snap and limited supplies of gas would be miserable for Europe. However the backlash against mobilization will hopefully take Putin out of power, end the Ukraine war, and result in fresh supplies of gas for Europe.

croes 4y ago
No, even if Putin is gone they can't just start buying russian gas again. Who knows who comes after Putin.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  If Russia remains economically isolated after Putin is ousted, wouldn't that worsen the odds of positive political reform in Russia? Economic sanctions are the stick, but if they continue even after Putin is gone, where is the carrot? If the new leader proves themselves bad as well, the sanctions should obviously be resumed.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    Won't it increase the odds of positive political reform in Europe and elsewhere, if they have energy independence rather than being beholden to dictatorial petrostates? It seems like a worthwhile goal even outside of the environmental benefits.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      That seems another matter to me. Are the sanctions against Russia meant to change Russia's warmongering behavior, or are they meant to save the environment? At present these motivations seem to align, but if the political situation in Russia changes that may no longer be the case.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        > Are the sanctions against Russia meant to change Russia's warmongering behavior, or are they meant to save the environment? it is, as I said above, not an either-or. The environmental benefits (which might be a good step, but will not be in themselves enough to "save" anyone) are outside of the consideration, and not the matter at hand. I thought that was clearly phrased. Rather, removing Russia, or other petrostates ability to blackmail with energy supply, makes them less likely to warmonger. Russia's warmongering is very much supported with oil and gas leverage - i.e. threats of "don't interfere or you'll go cold". Like the other reply says - if bullies no longer have a hold over you, you'll get less bullying. It's a poor assumption that Russian leadership will be better or even different in nature any time soon, Putin or not. And it's good for European domestic politics as well, to be less concerned with appeasing other powers, especially dictators.