5 ms·

Pennsylvania school district bans Girls Who Code Book

39 points by Bhilai 4y ago

Bostonian 4y ago
Any school library has limited space and must decide what books to stock. I don't know if the book in question is good or not. I will say that public schools should not be supporting clubs that discriminate on the basis of sex, as the Girls Who Code organization does. My daughter has been able to participate, but my son has not, which is unfair.
- 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  > public schools should not be supporting clubs that discriminate on the basis of sex Then they must ban football, baseball, basketball, tennis, soccer, etc
  - Bostonian 4y ago
    Public schools are required by Title IX to have roughly equivalent athletic programs for boys and girls. There are girls' teams for all of the sports you listed, except football. There is no Boys Who Code club at our school or any other.
    - 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
      First you say there should be no sex discrimination. Then I say, what about this other thing that has sex discrimination. And you reply, well, that sex discrimination is justified, because reasons. So you already are fine with sex discrimination as long as there is a good reason for it. > There is no Boys Who Code club at our school or any other. Why do you think that is?
- jleyank 4y ago
- evgen 4y ago
  This is not a club, it is a series of books. If you or your son are so threatened by the idea that the main characters of a series of books about problem-solving using coding skills (and teaching of same) can be girls then I think the one who has a problem here is you.
  - nickff 4y ago
    >"This is not a club, it is a series of books." According to their website, Girls Who Code runs a set of clubs: https://girlswhocode.com/programs/clubs-program https://girlswhocode.com/programs/clubs-program The books are not the club, but the two seem closely linked.
- Woeps 4y ago
  While yes every library has limited space this article seems to clearly state this is regarding banning the book. Regarding your son, I don't agree with not allowing boys to participate. (Which I doubt by the way) BUT I do understand why this could happen. Regardless. The situation with your son doesn't add anything to the discussion about the book being banned
- millzlane 4y ago
  It looks like anyone is allowed to join. https://girlswhocode.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360040258893-Are-boys-allowed-to-join-Girls-Who-Code-Clubs- https://girlswhocode.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360040258...
  - Bostonian 4y ago
    At my son's high school, boys were not welcome to join the Girls Who Code after school club. And let's be realistic. Even if the fine print on some site boys are allowed, the name is unwelcoming to them.
    - kazinator 4y ago
      > boys were not welcome to join the Girls Who Code after school club That's undoubtedly encouraging news to Moms for Liberty. If it was like that everywhere, they might reverse their stance.
    - kiwih 4y ago
      That sounds like an issue with the school, not with the book? Perhaps you could reach out and have a friendly discussion with the organizers. One anecdote to another, as a man, I have participated in numerous "women in engineering" tech days and sessions. I don't find them unwelcoming at all.
- beardicus 4y ago
  1. book bans have nothing to do with shelf space. it's weird that you would even bring this up. 2. the school board president does not mention book quality in their statement at all, but rather content objections. did you read the article? 3. this is a book, not a club, but also the associated organization states the following regarding boys in their local clubs: "we encourage our Clubs to welcome any member who wishes to join the Girls Who Code mission irrespective of gender identity".
- rolph 4y ago
  stack weeding, and book banning, are different animals.
bwanab 4y ago
Ah, the irony of modern English usage: "Moms for Liberty" pushing for book bans.
- zeruch 4y ago
  As overused as the term is, "Orwellian" seems weirdly apropos here.
- 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  The liberty to oppress women & minorities?
bjt2n3904 4y ago
A question: has anyone here actually read this book? While I'm frustrated that books like Maus are being caught up in these book bans, I'm more frustrated that books like "Gender Queer" are being treated as important books that should be in school libraries and accessible to fourteen year olds. But most of all, I'm angry that whenever this discussion happens, people try to gaslight me into believing this is just bigotry, or ideological boogeyman that don't exist, or partisan politics. It would be far more tolerable for someone to say, "Yes, books that teach and advocate queer theory should be available for children at X age." That, I can tolerate. Being told this is all a figment of my imagination, I cannot. Where this leads? Because of the rampant intellectual dishonesty and outright lies about what's happening, it's very difficult for me to believe that "Girls Who Code" is JUST a book that aims to introduce women to software development.
- vore 4y ago
  Why don't you take a look for yourself before getting mad at your strawman? https://girlswhocode.com/assets/downloads/craft-prod/downloads/Girls-Who-Code-At-Home-The-Friendship-Code-Chapter-1.pdf https://girlswhocode.com/assets/downloads/craft-prod/downloa...
- Woeps 4y ago
  > "are being treated as important books that should be in school libraries and accessible to fourteen year olds." Why would these books not be important? Because reading the reviews it's seems that the book is (and I quote) "great resource for those who identify as nonbinary or asexual" So yeah... this book not being important and > "Girls Who Code" is JUST a book that aims to introduce women to software development." IS just a figment of your imagination.
- mturmon 4y ago
  About books on gender roles: People are going through puberty at 14, and this is when questions about gender come up in a very pressing way. If you're trans, you might be disturbed by these changes and want some background information. So it's actually correct for books about gender to be in the school library. I can't endorse a particular book ("Gender Queer"), of course -- is that a real example? Usually the school librarian will be another check point on who has access to these books, if the library is open to a wider age group than, say, middle schoolers. This kind of "just asking questions" -- singling out this particular category of book -- does carry special weight in the light of things like the coordinated campaign targeting Boston Children's Hospital. Why the extra scrutiny?
lisper 4y ago
> “It felt very much like a direct attack on the movement we’ve been building to get girls coding." That's because it explicitly is such an attack: “What we are attempting to do is balance legitimate academic freedom with what could be literature/materials that are too activist in nature, and may lean more toward indoctrination rather than age-appropriate academic content.” [Emphasis added] The problem here, of course, is that activism is very much in the eye of the beholder, and so banning books on the grounds of being "too activist" effectively give you license to ban anything you want.
- NotSammyHagar 4y ago
  That is it exactly, very good.
kiwih 4y ago
This is absurd. As an educator, there is no excuse for banning books like this. To get the best thinkers in tech, we need to welcome everyone into tech, and these kinds of book provide on-roads for non-traditional pathways (i.e. representation matters).
- yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
  Have you read these specific books?
  - kiwih 4y ago
    I've just skimmed the content online, it looks fine to me. Also, this shouldn't matter, even if I found the content reprehensible. To clarify my viewpoint further, I don't support banning any books.
  - threatofrain 4y ago
    Some of them are curriculum books and others are popular hits, so many of us have. Schools already have a vetting process and having the legislature perform ad hoc bans is a political show.
yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
I don't think anyone can really say if the grounds for banning those books are legitimate until they've actually read them. In any case, I have had women complain to me that software conferences I've recommended they attend (because they are focused on bringing more women into programming) were too activist in nature and turned them off programming.
ghiculescu 4y ago
Looks like it is not the case: https://twitter.com/centralyorksd/status/1574388246569795590 https://twitter.com/centralyorksd/status/1574388246569795590 It’s a shame the article doesn’t mention that.
jimmygrapes 4y ago
Horrible activist outrage click bait writing. From https://www.cysd.k12.pa.us/ https://www.cysd.k12.pa.us/: > The District was recently made aware of a national article published last evening falsely claiming that Central York School District has banned the book/series Girls Who Code. The information published in this article is categorically false. This book series has not been banned, and they remain available in our libraries. If you have any questions, please email communications@cysd.k12.pa.us.
forgottofloss 4y ago
The index, which is linked in the article, reveals that the banned books are not How to Code books but a series of chapter novels that feature girls who are interested in coding but know nothing about it. Furthermore, they are only banned as classroom curriculum books, not banned from the library, which makes sense because the first book appears to contain no classroom merit whatsoever -- just like most chapter books aimed at kids. I skimmed through the first book. It's cute. A bunch of girls who are excited to learn to make apps join the coding club and get tricked by their female teacher into solving a bunch of coding trivia outside the classroom in order to develop friendships. They finally learn some actual coding from the protagonist's older brother. There really is no merit to this as a classroom assigned reading book, and it would probably be a drag for boys to read. The writing style and thoughts and feelings of the main character are obviously directed heavily at girls, except for the older brother who's a cool prankster and who actually knows how to make basic utilities. The Girls Who Code textbook by the same author, Learn to Code and Change the World, is not banned.
- drbeast 4y ago
  Thank you for doing the needful kind sir.
- Volundr 4y ago
  Is there a reason we don't trust the teachers to make that call? I imagine there are a near infinite number of books that have "no classroom merit", do we need to spell them all out? It's also hard to square "it just doesn't provide any benefit in the classroom" with this quote from the board president: > What we are attempting to do is balance legitimate academic freedom with what could be literature/materials that are too activist in nature, and may lean more toward indoctrination rather than age-appropriate academic content. That sure seems to suggest someone thought a group of girls bonding in coding club was "too activist".
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - spoils19 4y ago

39 points by Bhilai 4y ago

Any school library has limited space and must decide what books to stock. I don't know if the book in question is good or not. I will say that public schools should not be supporting clubs that discriminate on the basis of sex, as the Girls Who Code organization does. My daughter has been able to participate, but my son has not, which is unfair.

0xbadcafebee 4y ago
> public schools should not be supporting clubs that discriminate on the basis of sex Then they must ban football, baseball, basketball, tennis, soccer, etc
- Bostonian 4y ago
  Public schools are required by Title IX to have roughly equivalent athletic programs for boys and girls. There are girls' teams for all of the sports you listed, except football. There is no Boys Who Code club at our school or any other.
  - 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
    First you say there should be no sex discrimination. Then I say, what about this other thing that has sex discrimination. And you reply, well, that sex discrimination is justified, because reasons. So you already are fine with sex discrimination as long as there is a good reason for it. > There is no Boys Who Code club at our school or any other. Why do you think that is?
jleyank 4y ago
evgen 4y ago
This is not a club, it is a series of books. If you or your son are so threatened by the idea that the main characters of a series of books about problem-solving using coding skills (and teaching of same) can be girls then I think the one who has a problem here is you.
- nickff 4y ago
  >"This is not a club, it is a series of books." According to their website, Girls Who Code runs a set of clubs: https://girlswhocode.com/programs/clubs-program https://girlswhocode.com/programs/clubs-program The books are not the club, but the two seem closely linked.
Woeps 4y ago
While yes every library has limited space this article seems to clearly state this is regarding banning the book. Regarding your son, I don't agree with not allowing boys to participate. (Which I doubt by the way) BUT I do understand why this could happen. Regardless. The situation with your son doesn't add anything to the discussion about the book being banned
millzlane 4y ago
It looks like anyone is allowed to join. https://girlswhocode.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360040258893-Are-boys-allowed-to-join-Girls-Who-Code-Clubs- https://girlswhocode.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360040258...
- Bostonian 4y ago
  At my son's high school, boys were not welcome to join the Girls Who Code after school club. And let's be realistic. Even if the fine print on some site boys are allowed, the name is unwelcoming to them.
  - kazinator 4y ago
    > boys were not welcome to join the Girls Who Code after school club That's undoubtedly encouraging news to Moms for Liberty. If it was like that everywhere, they might reverse their stance.
  - kiwih 4y ago
    That sounds like an issue with the school, not with the book? Perhaps you could reach out and have a friendly discussion with the organizers. One anecdote to another, as a man, I have participated in numerous "women in engineering" tech days and sessions. I don't find them unwelcoming at all.
beardicus 4y ago
1. book bans have nothing to do with shelf space. it's weird that you would even bring this up. 2. the school board president does not mention book quality in their statement at all, but rather content objections. did you read the article? 3. this is a book, not a club, but also the associated organization states the following regarding boys in their local clubs: "we encourage our Clubs to welcome any member who wishes to join the Girls Who Code mission irrespective of gender identity".
rolph 4y ago
stack weeding, and book banning, are different animals.

bwanab 4y ago

Ah, the irony of modern English usage: "Moms for Liberty" pushing for book bans.

zeruch 4y ago
As overused as the term is, "Orwellian" seems weirdly apropos here.
0xbadcafebee 4y ago
The liberty to oppress women & minorities?

bjt2n3904 4y ago

A question: has anyone here actually read this book? While I'm frustrated that books like Maus are being caught up in these book bans, I'm more frustrated that books like "Gender Queer" are being treated as important books that should be in school libraries and accessible to fourteen year olds. But most of all, I'm angry that whenever this discussion happens, people try to gaslight me into believing this is just bigotry, or ideological boogeyman that don't exist, or partisan politics. It would be far more tolerable for someone to say, "Yes, books that teach and advocate queer theory should be available for children at X age." That, I can tolerate. Being told this is all a figment of my imagination, I cannot. Where this leads? Because of the rampant intellectual dishonesty and outright lies about what's happening, it's very difficult for me to believe that "Girls Who Code" is JUST a book that aims to introduce women to software development.

vore 4y ago
Why don't you take a look for yourself before getting mad at your strawman? https://girlswhocode.com/assets/downloads/craft-prod/downloads/Girls-Who-Code-At-Home-The-Friendship-Code-Chapter-1.pdf https://girlswhocode.com/assets/downloads/craft-prod/downloa...
Woeps 4y ago
> "are being treated as important books that should be in school libraries and accessible to fourteen year olds." Why would these books not be important? Because reading the reviews it's seems that the book is (and I quote) "great resource for those who identify as nonbinary or asexual" So yeah... this book not being important and > "Girls Who Code" is JUST a book that aims to introduce women to software development." IS just a figment of your imagination.
mturmon 4y ago
About books on gender roles: People are going through puberty at 14, and this is when questions about gender come up in a very pressing way. If you're trans, you might be disturbed by these changes and want some background information. So it's actually correct for books about gender to be in the school library. I can't endorse a particular book ("Gender Queer"), of course -- is that a real example? Usually the school librarian will be another check point on who has access to these books, if the library is open to a wider age group than, say, middle schoolers. This kind of "just asking questions" -- singling out this particular category of book -- does carry special weight in the light of things like the coordinated campaign targeting Boston Children's Hospital. Why the extra scrutiny?

lisper 4y ago

> “It felt very much like a direct attack on the movement we’ve been building to get girls coding." That's because it explicitly is such an attack: “What we are attempting to do is balance legitimate academic freedom with what could be literature/materials that are too activist in nature, and may lean more toward indoctrination rather than age-appropriate academic content.” [Emphasis added] The problem here, of course, is that activism is very much in the eye of the beholder, and so banning books on the grounds of being "too activist" effectively give you license to ban anything you want.

NotSammyHagar 4y ago
That is it exactly, very good.

kiwih 4y ago

This is absurd. As an educator, there is no excuse for banning books like this. To get the best thinkers in tech, we need to welcome everyone into tech, and these kinds of book provide on-roads for non-traditional pathways (i.e. representation matters).

yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
Have you read these specific books?
- kiwih 4y ago
  I've just skimmed the content online, it looks fine to me. Also, this shouldn't matter, even if I found the content reprehensible. To clarify my viewpoint further, I don't support banning any books.
- threatofrain 4y ago
  Some of them are curriculum books and others are popular hits, so many of us have. Schools already have a vetting process and having the legislature perform ad hoc bans is a political show.

yakshaving_jgt 4y ago

I don't think anyone can really say if the grounds for banning those books are legitimate until they've actually read them. In any case, I have had women complain to me that software conferences I've recommended they attend (because they are focused on bringing more women into programming) were too activist in nature and turned them off programming.

ghiculescu 4y ago

Looks like it is not the case: https://twitter.com/centralyorksd/status/1574388246569795590 https://twitter.com/centralyorksd/status/1574388246569795590 It’s a shame the article doesn’t mention that.

jimmygrapes 4y ago

Horrible activist outrage click bait writing. From https://www.cysd.k12.pa.us/ https://www.cysd.k12.pa.us/: > The District was recently made aware of a national article published last evening falsely claiming that Central York School District has banned the book/series Girls Who Code. The information published in this article is categorically false. This book series has not been banned, and they remain available in our libraries. If you have any questions, please email communications@cysd.k12.pa.us.

forgottofloss 4y ago

The index, which is linked in the article, reveals that the banned books are not How to Code books but a series of chapter novels that feature girls who are interested in coding but know nothing about it. Furthermore, they are only banned as classroom curriculum books, not banned from the library, which makes sense because the first book appears to contain no classroom merit whatsoever -- just like most chapter books aimed at kids. I skimmed through the first book. It's cute. A bunch of girls who are excited to learn to make apps join the coding club and get tricked by their female teacher into solving a bunch of coding trivia outside the classroom in order to develop friendships. They finally learn some actual coding from the protagonist's older brother. There really is no merit to this as a classroom assigned reading book, and it would probably be a drag for boys to read. The writing style and thoughts and feelings of the main character are obviously directed heavily at girls, except for the older brother who's a cool prankster and who actually knows how to make basic utilities. The Girls Who Code textbook by the same author, Learn to Code and Change the World, is not banned.

drbeast 4y ago
Thank you for doing the needful kind sir.
Volundr 4y ago
Is there a reason we don't trust the teachers to make that call? I imagine there are a near infinite number of books that have "no classroom merit", do we need to spell them all out? It's also hard to square "it just doesn't provide any benefit in the classroom" with this quote from the board president: > What we are attempting to do is balance legitimate academic freedom with what could be literature/materials that are too activist in nature, and may lean more toward indoctrination rather than age-appropriate academic content. That sure seems to suggest someone thought a group of girls bonding in coding club was "too activist".
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- spoils19 4y ago