6 ms·

ESims are quite nice, out here in the real world. You can travel to a different country, find your data is crap because reasons -- either they're not roaming w

ESims are quite nice, out here in the real world. You can travel to a different country, find your data is crap because reasons -- either they're not roaming well (hello edge on a cheap out of country provider), or you've travelled to Switzerland and data now costs 7.13eur/mb. (yeah, a car/Gb) So you pay for an ESIM from an MNVO, get a qr code, install, and you're good to go in 5 minutes from any network connection. Nothing physical required. And your normal number is still there for incoming calls/texts, because all the ESIM phones I've seen have at least two slots (or one + physical sim) Of course, you've got to have an unlocked phone. But you wanted that anyway.

bsimpson 4y ago
It's so nice to not have to spend the first day of a trip wandering around looking for a SIM shop that's open and will sell to you with a foreign passport. Last time I was abroad, I set up an eSIM while I was waiting at baggage claim, so I had service on my multihour train connection.
- schwartzworld 4y ago
  > It's so nice to not have to spend the first day of a trip wandering around looking for a SIM shop I went to three different countries this summer and all of them had sim cards available on your way out of the airport. In Armenia, it was in the baggage claim.
  - thekid314 4y ago
    This is sometimes true. Like in Tunisia where they give a free SIM in baggage claim. But I crossed a lot of land borders through west africa where it would be a day or two of traveling before I could find an official store that had a physical SIM. Experiences differ.
  - SpectralTheory 4y ago
    I did not notice this in Ireland, but I may have missed it. It was this easy in London though.
  - throwaway29812 4y ago
    Also all EU sim cards roam in the whole of the EU automatically.
  - nikau 4y ago
    A lot of asian countries have similar convenience for physical SIMs, order online and just pickup at a stall at the airport.
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  Can you actually get a European sim without showing ID? That would kind of surprise me, there has been a big push to get rid of anonymous phone numbers.
  - wiredfool 4y ago
    Depends, I think you can get them in Tesco pretty easily, and the MVNO I was talking about was giving numbers for their data plan from the UK, but with roaming all over Europe. I think it's more difficult in Germany than a lot of other countries.
  - jiayo 4y ago
    In France, providers will require you to provide KYC information within 14-30 days of obtaining the SIM, or it will be deactivated. Suitable for a short-term travel use case.
  - ugjka 4y ago
    Here in Latvia you can buy sims from all major providers without any ID for as low as 0.99€. The caveat is that you have to top up them regularly because they have expiry times depending on the amount you top them up.
  - bsimpson 4y ago
    Swype by Yallo is the eSIM I've used. My Telecom Italia SIM ran out of roaming data while I was in Switzerland, and there was no way to top up. Swype had a first month free promo, so I signed up from my Airbnb. I did have to send a photo of my documents, but the total time from download to data was less than 30m. I took a quick (1 week) work trip to Germany this summer. I was trying to figure out how to get a SIM before getting on the train, when I remembered I still had the eSIM in my phone. I downloaded the app and bought data - $15 per month + $3 per day (since I was roaming). Not only was it super convenient, but I had unlimited data with roaming. I don't think even local cards get you that. For short trips to Europe, I definitely recommend Swype for its convenience.
    - kelnos 4y ago
mig39 4y ago
I'm Canadian. I recently travelled to Spain & Portugal for more than a month, used a Hong Kong esim for data for a few days until I found a local physical SIM. Then swapped between both depending on the coverage. I bought the esim at the airport, while waiting for my bags.
bane 4y ago
I perceive the problem differently. Google Fi has demonstrated that it's possible to arrange service agreements across providers that offer consistent, predictable, relatively low costs for people that travel frequently between countries. If there was another couple global-scale competitors to Fi I'd wager we'd see competition squash the prices down even more. But at the moment, when I step off a plane or drive across a national border it's an experience basically equivalent to driving across states here in the U.S. I've used it in 4 continents and about 20 countries now and it's pretty much instant. The problem of course is that Fi is U.S. based which brings a few extra headaches with it for people who want the service but are based overseas, or for expats living abroad for a long period of time. Note: I also have some Voip apps on my phone giving me a few different phone numbers to the same phone without the SIM/eSIM mess. But these days I'm finding I'm more or less just making voice calls over apps anyways meaning I'm using voice service less and less.
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  +1 for Google Fi I use Google Fi and I've been to the Netherlands, France, Spain, Italy, and Switzerland. When I landed, I'd get a text message saying something like "Welcome to $COUNTRY! Your data is $DATA_RATE per gigabyte and voice calls are $VOICE_RATE per minute. It may take a couple minutes to get connected" DATA_RATE has always been the standard Google Fi rate of $10/GB (with data free after a certain point, and free but throttled at another threshold), and the voice rate is typically 10 cents/minute. For people that do a lot of travel and use a lot of data, you can even get an unlimited international data plan. But yeah, I can go to nearly any first world country, and even some 3rd world countries, and not pay extra for my data. The fact that Verizon/TMobile/Sprint/etc. can't get their shit together and make this happen for their customers feels like a scam.
  - throwaway29812 4y ago
    -1 For Google Fi. I traveled to 2 countries on their list of "compatible" places where data should work, it didn't. Called support, no explanation. Bought a cheap local sim card instead, which always makes more sense to do. Now that Whatsapp and iMessage both let you "roam" on a different sim while keeping your phone number, there's no reason to try and roam with your original plan.
cageface 4y ago
Anybody who thinks esims don't have issues hasn't seen much of the "real" world. In a lot of countries esim still isn't even an option, especially if you're a visitor. At least in developing countries getting a physical SIM is as easy as paying a small fee on your way out the airport and popping it in your phone or picking one up in a convenience store. I just arrived here in Panama and got a local sim for $5/week from a grocery store. The esim options were 2x this price and required installing special apps.
- gwill 4y ago
  can't a regular sim be typed in manually and used as an esim? at least that's how it worked on my iphone a year ago.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  Airalo just works in most of the world. I travel quite a lot and eSIM made my life a whole lot simpler. Before you had to find an operator kiosk at the airport and negotiate with someone there who might or might not speak a language you speak to try to get a pre-paid vaguely firing your need if one exists. Now you can just pre-buy in app before your flight and everything pretty much just works.
- nsriv 4y ago
  I keep seeing this sentiment and it's incredibly obvious that people are traveling to European or developed Asian countries. The sim situation in most other countries is exactly as you describe if not worse, and that's also accounting for language barriers between the traveler and the vendors.
- bodyfour 4y ago
  My bet is that this is going to change a lot, very soon. Apple apparently felt comfortable enough with the eSIM situation in the US to drop legacy-SIM already. The fact that they couldn't do this worldwide yet is because, as you say, eSIM availability is still spotty around the world. However, the fact that they're moving to eSIM-only is a huge flashing warning to telcos around the world that the time to sort out their eSIM support is now. Otherwise, they'll soon be chasing away their affluent iPhone users. I think the transition will now proceed pretty quickly. Physical SIMs have only continued on due to market inertia. In a few years we'll look back and think "remember when SIM cards were physical objects... that was weird wasn't it?"
supertrope 4y ago
In some countries no domestic carrier supports eSIM.
- dweekly 4y ago
  Here's a map, thanks to a Redditor: https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/x8r6a3/countries_that_support_esim_according_to_apple/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/x8r6a3/countries_that_...
sangnoir 4y ago
> So you pay for an ESIM from an MNVO, get a qr code, install, and you're good to go in 5 minutes from any network connection. Physical SIMs require no network access at all: as a matter of fact, acquiring a SIM may be a prerequisite of getting a network connection in a foreign country.
- enos_feedler 4y ago
  That has never been my problem. Dealing with people, stores, passport verification, scams, etc has been.
tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
The increased competition from international MVNOs likely also helps drive prices down. When you're traveling and don't want to plan weeks ahead, your options with physical SIMs typically were either 1) special roaming-oriented SIM cards from your local country (which were still a massive hassle and had to be ordered days in advance to allow for delivery), 2) getting a SIM in the destination country (hassle and might not always be possible) 3) very expensive offerings from your own provider, if they even had something better than the aforementioned car-per-GB rates. Now, you can get an eSIM from an MVNO that's from a third country, before travel or from the airport/hotel WiFi, usually also bypassing any bureaucratic bullshit that the destination country imposes on getting a local SIM. And these "travel eSIMs" are often cheaper than local offerings even for use in your home country.
- endgame 4y ago
  For now. And the move to "eSIMs" will be a one-way door. There's a reason embrace, extend, extinguish works as a strategy.
_8j50 4y ago
You mentioned all the conveniences which I never disputed. As an optional feature I have no problem against them.
tarunupaday 4y ago
This is not a problem anymore. I visit about 4+ countries every year (hello IMF / World Bank contracts) and have done 43 countries in last 6 years (on Google Fi, T-mobile and Indian Jio). T-mobile includes 5GB / month of full speed international roaming in virtually any country in the world. (15 GB for $50 after it). Getting a new local e-sim does not scale when you visit multiple countries or area in a jurisdiction which requires ton of documentation (including a local address or contact they can verify). Even then, it’s complicated. For example, just this year I learnt that a local Indian e-sim (pre-paid) will not work in state of Kashmir in India or parts of Xinjiang in China.

bsimpson 4y ago

It's so nice to not have to spend the first day of a trip wandering around looking for a SIM shop that's open and will sell to you with a foreign passport. Last time I was abroad, I set up an eSIM while I was waiting at baggage claim, so I had service on my multihour train connection.

schwartzworld 4y ago
> It's so nice to not have to spend the first day of a trip wandering around looking for a SIM shop I went to three different countries this summer and all of them had sim cards available on your way out of the airport. In Armenia, it was in the baggage claim.
- thekid314 4y ago
  This is sometimes true. Like in Tunisia where they give a free SIM in baggage claim. But I crossed a lot of land borders through west africa where it would be a day or two of traveling before I could find an official store that had a physical SIM. Experiences differ.
- SpectralTheory 4y ago
  I did not notice this in Ireland, but I may have missed it. It was this easy in London though.
- throwaway29812 4y ago
  Also all EU sim cards roam in the whole of the EU automatically.
- nikau 4y ago
  A lot of asian countries have similar convenience for physical SIMs, order online and just pickup at a stall at the airport.
tinus_hn 4y ago
Can you actually get a European sim without showing ID? That would kind of surprise me, there has been a big push to get rid of anonymous phone numbers.
- wiredfool 4y ago
  Depends, I think you can get them in Tesco pretty easily, and the MVNO I was talking about was giving numbers for their data plan from the UK, but with roaming all over Europe. I think it's more difficult in Germany than a lot of other countries.
- jiayo 4y ago
  In France, providers will require you to provide KYC information within 14-30 days of obtaining the SIM, or it will be deactivated. Suitable for a short-term travel use case.
- ugjka 4y ago
  Here in Latvia you can buy sims from all major providers without any ID for as low as 0.99€. The caveat is that you have to top up them regularly because they have expiry times depending on the amount you top them up.
- bsimpson 4y ago
  Swype by Yallo is the eSIM I've used. My Telecom Italia SIM ran out of roaming data while I was in Switzerland, and there was no way to top up. Swype had a first month free promo, so I signed up from my Airbnb. I did have to send a photo of my documents, but the total time from download to data was less than 30m. I took a quick (1 week) work trip to Germany this summer. I was trying to figure out how to get a SIM before getting on the train, when I remembered I still had the eSIM in my phone. I downloaded the app and bought data - $15 per month + $3 per day (since I was roaming). Not only was it super convenient, but I had unlimited data with roaming. I don't think even local cards get you that. For short trips to Europe, I definitely recommend Swype for its convenience.
  - kelnos 4y ago

mig39 4y ago

I'm Canadian. I recently travelled to Spain & Portugal for more than a month, used a Hong Kong esim for data for a few days until I found a local physical SIM. Then swapped between both depending on the coverage. I bought the esim at the airport, while waiting for my bags.

bane 4y ago

I perceive the problem differently. Google Fi has demonstrated that it's possible to arrange service agreements across providers that offer consistent, predictable, relatively low costs for people that travel frequently between countries. If there was another couple global-scale competitors to Fi I'd wager we'd see competition squash the prices down even more. But at the moment, when I step off a plane or drive across a national border it's an experience basically equivalent to driving across states here in the U.S. I've used it in 4 continents and about 20 countries now and it's pretty much instant. The problem of course is that Fi is U.S. based which brings a few extra headaches with it for people who want the service but are based overseas, or for expats living abroad for a long period of time. Note: I also have some Voip apps on my phone giving me a few different phone numbers to the same phone without the SIM/eSIM mess. But these days I'm finding I'm more or less just making voice calls over apps anyways meaning I'm using voice service less and less.

Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
+1 for Google Fi I use Google Fi and I've been to the Netherlands, France, Spain, Italy, and Switzerland. When I landed, I'd get a text message saying something like "Welcome to $COUNTRY! Your data is $DATA_RATE per gigabyte and voice calls are $VOICE_RATE per minute. It may take a couple minutes to get connected" DATA_RATE has always been the standard Google Fi rate of $10/GB (with data free after a certain point, and free but throttled at another threshold), and the voice rate is typically 10 cents/minute. For people that do a lot of travel and use a lot of data, you can even get an unlimited international data plan. But yeah, I can go to nearly any first world country, and even some 3rd world countries, and not pay extra for my data. The fact that Verizon/TMobile/Sprint/etc. can't get their shit together and make this happen for their customers feels like a scam.
- throwaway29812 4y ago
  -1 For Google Fi. I traveled to 2 countries on their list of "compatible" places where data should work, it didn't. Called support, no explanation. Bought a cheap local sim card instead, which always makes more sense to do. Now that Whatsapp and iMessage both let you "roam" on a different sim while keeping your phone number, there's no reason to try and roam with your original plan.

cageface 4y ago

Anybody who thinks esims don't have issues hasn't seen much of the "real" world. In a lot of countries esim still isn't even an option, especially if you're a visitor. At least in developing countries getting a physical SIM is as easy as paying a small fee on your way out the airport and popping it in your phone or picking one up in a convenience store. I just arrived here in Panama and got a local sim for $5/week from a grocery store. The esim options were 2x this price and required installing special apps.

gwill 4y ago
can't a regular sim be typed in manually and used as an esim? at least that's how it worked on my iphone a year ago.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
Airalo just works in most of the world. I travel quite a lot and eSIM made my life a whole lot simpler. Before you had to find an operator kiosk at the airport and negotiate with someone there who might or might not speak a language you speak to try to get a pre-paid vaguely firing your need if one exists. Now you can just pre-buy in app before your flight and everything pretty much just works.
nsriv 4y ago
I keep seeing this sentiment and it's incredibly obvious that people are traveling to European or developed Asian countries. The sim situation in most other countries is exactly as you describe if not worse, and that's also accounting for language barriers between the traveler and the vendors.
bodyfour 4y ago
My bet is that this is going to change a lot, very soon. Apple apparently felt comfortable enough with the eSIM situation in the US to drop legacy-SIM already. The fact that they couldn't do this worldwide yet is because, as you say, eSIM availability is still spotty around the world. However, the fact that they're moving to eSIM-only is a huge flashing warning to telcos around the world that the time to sort out their eSIM support is now. Otherwise, they'll soon be chasing away their affluent iPhone users. I think the transition will now proceed pretty quickly. Physical SIMs have only continued on due to market inertia. In a few years we'll look back and think "remember when SIM cards were physical objects... that was weird wasn't it?"

supertrope 4y ago

In some countries no domestic carrier supports eSIM.

dweekly 4y ago
Here's a map, thanks to a Redditor: https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/x8r6a3/countries_that_support_esim_according_to_apple/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/x8r6a3/countries_that_...

sangnoir 4y ago

> So you pay for an ESIM from an MNVO, get a qr code, install, and you're good to go in 5 minutes from any network connection. Physical SIMs require no network access at all: as a matter of fact, acquiring a SIM may be a prerequisite of getting a network connection in a foreign country.

enos_feedler 4y ago
That has never been my problem. Dealing with people, stores, passport verification, scams, etc has been.

tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago

The increased competition from international MVNOs likely also helps drive prices down. When you're traveling and don't want to plan weeks ahead, your options with physical SIMs typically were either 1) special roaming-oriented SIM cards from your local country (which were still a massive hassle and had to be ordered days in advance to allow for delivery), 2) getting a SIM in the destination country (hassle and might not always be possible) 3) very expensive offerings from your own provider, if they even had something better than the aforementioned car-per-GB rates. Now, you can get an eSIM from an MVNO that's from a third country, before travel or from the airport/hotel WiFi, usually also bypassing any bureaucratic bullshit that the destination country imposes on getting a local SIM. And these "travel eSIMs" are often cheaper than local offerings even for use in your home country.

endgame 4y ago
For now. And the move to "eSIMs" will be a one-way door. There's a reason embrace, extend, extinguish works as a strategy.

_8j50 4y ago

You mentioned all the conveniences which I never disputed. As an optional feature I have no problem against them.

tarunupaday 4y ago

This is not a problem anymore. I visit about 4+ countries every year (hello IMF / World Bank contracts) and have done 43 countries in last 6 years (on Google Fi, T-mobile and Indian Jio). T-mobile includes 5GB / month of full speed international roaming in virtually any country in the world. (15 GB for $50 after it). Getting a new local e-sim does not scale when you visit multiple countries or area in a jurisdiction which requires ton of documentation (including a local address or contact they can verify). Even then, it’s complicated. For example, just this year I learnt that a local Indian e-sim (pre-paid) will not work in state of Kashmir in India or parts of Xinjiang in China.