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I definitely agree with the sentiment, but I think project maintainers need to see this post more than users do. I've been a user for a long time (I didn't jus

by Timwi 4y ago

I definitely agree with the sentiment, but I think project maintainers need to see this post more than users do. I've been a user for a long time (I didn't just turn on a computer for the first time in my life). I see issues with software everywhere and I'm the kind of person that itches to report them so that they can be fixed/improved. The article seems to imply that people like this are rare and people need a push to become like this. But the reality is that reporting bugs is rarely done because it is often not welcome. UX issues even more so. Developers look down on this as a nuisance rather than a contribution. It sometimes leads to unnecessary debates, even flame wars, that quickly stray from the subject of the actual bug reported. Even when it doesn't, the best case scenario is often that it's just ignored. You post your bug into some issue tracker and it just sits there and nobody cares. It's like talking to the proverbial wall. If you want the types of contributions listed in this article in your project, you need to welcome them. You need to thank users, you need to act on them, and you need the developers to stay on focus.

calvinmorrison 4y ago
My findings is that there should be a very low bar for opening bugs. Maybe don't call them bugs, call them 'tips'. No, I am not going to spend 10 minutes filling out this report, or sign up for github to do so, but I would be happy to send a brief message describing my issue. You're probably just going to close it in 3 weeks automatically anyway. Running off this new HN phrase about non-zero amounts of fraud - There's a non-zero amount of 'bad' bug reports and many good reports are left to the wayside because of this.
- bawolff 4y ago
  In commercial world there are whole teams of people to filter reports as not to distract devs from their jobs. In the open source world, bad bug reports really are a drain with negative value. Someone has to read them at the end of the day. Nobody expects the amount to be 0%, but at the same time nobody has time for 200 mysterious reports of "i did something unspecified, and it did something i didnt expect, but im not going to tell you what it did, what i thought it should do, or what version im running"
- zasdffaa 4y ago
  If you can't describe teh problem sufficiently then the bug can't be fixed, or you're loading the problem onto the dev. > No, I am not going to spend 10 minutes filling out this report, Then it won't get fixed > but I would be happy to send a brief message describing my issue. Which often ain't going to be enough. You're now wasting everybody's time > You're probably just going to close it in 3 weeks automatically anyway. Jesus that's so cynical smug. My request: don't use any open source software. Pay for it. Leave open source developers with people who can be bothered, if you can't be bothered to give anything back at all.
RobotToaster 4y ago
I feel like "managing bug reports" is something missing from the list OP posted. Getting information and logs from users, checking if a new bug is a duplicate, attempting to reproduce bugs, and triaging, are all things that can take a long time, but don't necessarily need to be done by a developer.
- yebyen 4y ago
  > don't necessarily need to be done by a developer Yes and no. They need to be done by someone with developer empathy, for example a hyper-enthusiastic user champion, and hands-on problem solving experience definitely helps a lot. Reproducing bugs and triaging issue reports does not require the skill of reading and writing code, it does require the skill of systems thinking which is IMHO a developer trait.
xcrunner529 4y ago
Yep. See the Home Assistant devs. They implemented a bad “hack” that forced some DNS settings and when it was reported and they were called on it they doubled down instead of fixing.

by Timwi 4y ago

calvinmorrison 4y ago

My findings is that there should be a very low bar for opening bugs. Maybe don't call them bugs, call them 'tips'. No, I am not going to spend 10 minutes filling out this report, or sign up for github to do so, but I would be happy to send a brief message describing my issue. You're probably just going to close it in 3 weeks automatically anyway. Running off this new HN phrase about non-zero amounts of fraud - There's a non-zero amount of 'bad' bug reports and many good reports are left to the wayside because of this.

bawolff 4y ago
In commercial world there are whole teams of people to filter reports as not to distract devs from their jobs. In the open source world, bad bug reports really are a drain with negative value. Someone has to read them at the end of the day. Nobody expects the amount to be 0%, but at the same time nobody has time for 200 mysterious reports of "i did something unspecified, and it did something i didnt expect, but im not going to tell you what it did, what i thought it should do, or what version im running"
zasdffaa 4y ago
If you can't describe teh problem sufficiently then the bug can't be fixed, or you're loading the problem onto the dev. > No, I am not going to spend 10 minutes filling out this report, Then it won't get fixed > but I would be happy to send a brief message describing my issue. Which often ain't going to be enough. You're now wasting everybody's time > You're probably just going to close it in 3 weeks automatically anyway. Jesus that's so cynical smug. My request: don't use any open source software. Pay for it. Leave open source developers with people who can be bothered, if you can't be bothered to give anything back at all.

RobotToaster 4y ago

I feel like "managing bug reports" is something missing from the list OP posted. Getting information and logs from users, checking if a new bug is a duplicate, attempting to reproduce bugs, and triaging, are all things that can take a long time, but don't necessarily need to be done by a developer.

yebyen 4y ago
> don't necessarily need to be done by a developer Yes and no. They need to be done by someone with developer empathy, for example a hyper-enthusiastic user champion, and hands-on problem solving experience definitely helps a lot. Reproducing bugs and triaging issue reports does not require the skill of reading and writing code, it does require the skill of systems thinking which is IMHO a developer trait.

xcrunner529 4y ago

Yep. See the Home Assistant devs. They implemented a bad “hack” that forced some DNS settings and when it was reported and they were called on it they doubled down instead of fixing.