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I like this answer. Not everyone is a programmer, and not everyone needs to be a programmer. Introducing coding as kids will give that spark to a few people who

I like this answer. Not everyone is a programmer, and not everyone needs to be a programmer. Introducing coding as kids will give that spark to a few people who are interested in it to pursue it

Kim_Bruning 4y ago
Not everyone is Shakespeare or JK Rowling either, but we still teach people to read and write in primary school. Because the world around you has a lot of words in it, and it's a useful skill to have. And as has been proven by history, a citizenry with a grasp of writing and rhetoric has a much better chance of standing up for themselves! Nor is everyone Pythagoras or Euclid, but we still teach people counting and adding and geometry in primary school. We do so because the world around you is full of numbers, so it's a useful skill to have. And a citizenry with a basic grasp of numbers and logic is harder to mislead. In the 21st century, the world around you is now full of programs too. * The clothes you wear (looms were programmed with punch cards before computers even existed) * The telephone in your pocket * Your credit/debit/loyalty/etc cards in your wallet for interfacing with diverse services * Your key-fob which interacts with your car in magical ways. * Computers on every desk, in every car, in every tractor, controlling factories, administering stores... etc And not just that, remember that your body itself has kinds of programs at two different levels at least. * DNA transcription is very reminiscent of Turing machine. * Neural Networks are all the rage in ML and AI these days. Humans have these built in too. Albeit a very advanced, powerful, and efficient variant. So why shouldn't we teach everyone the basics of programming, even if just a little? We needn't expect them to become Linus Torvalds or John Carmack or anything. Just enough so they're a little familiar with the magic behind the curtain. Maybe that's just enough intuition to still be able to eg. fix a modern tractor or a car?
- danjoredd 4y ago
  TBH I have never really agreed with the idea that coding is the new reading/writing. Thats like saying everyone needs to be taught mechanics because everyone drives cars, or everyone needs to know engineering because we use machines. Reading, writing, and math are completely essential because they allow communication. If you don't know how math works you can't use money. If you don't know how to read or write, you cannot have a job. Even Walmart and Subway have those as required skills, because you cannot perform the job without them, and those are as bottom of the barrel as jobs get. Coding is useful, but lets be real...most people don't care and don't need to care as long as it works. It is not required to do their jobs. You can do more if you know coding, sure, and it might even give you a leg up in some fields. But when something breaks most people would rather just call the help desk guy to fix it rather than waste time fixing it themselves. Perhaps a single course could work, but again, lets be real...these are children we are talking about, and only a few of them are going to actually learn anything. I talked to a few high schoolers who took it as an elective and they said they just took it because their parents wanted them to, and they didn't retain anything because they didn't WANT to learn how to code. If we give it to every kid, it might give some an interest, but for the majority it will just be more useless knowledge they will discard. That being said, as fond as I am of English and math, I don't think we have to teach it as much as we do. What we learn simply isn't useful, and we relearn it in college anyways. After 3rd grade you don't learn anything new in English, and you just get the same lessons over and over again each year. It certainly doesn't help. Math is important, but I also think that we should put a more utilitarian spin on math, as very few people will need to know calculus. Consumer math is the superior course, as it is something that people actually use. I don't regret taking it in high school, since the calculus class I would have taken I ended up learning in college anyway. TL;DR, I think high school learning should be more utilitarian than it is.
  - Kim_Bruning 4y ago
    I think we're coming from different angles, but are likely to end up in the middle. You don't need to know everything yourself. But you can derive a lot of power over your environment just knowing what things are possible, and who to ask for help (and how to ask it!). To do that, you need to know a little bit about a lot of fields : mechanics, engineering, electricity ... and definitely including programming, because that's everywhere these days. That's one argument at least. [[ Another argument is that it really does help if you're not helpless to hold a screwdriver, put in a light-bulb, change a tire, or write a small program. But that's for another day. ]]

I like this answer. Not everyone is a programmer, and not everyone needs to be a programmer. Introducing coding as kids will give that spark to a few people who are interested in it to pursue it

Kim_Bruning 4y ago

Not everyone is Shakespeare or JK Rowling either, but we still teach people to read and write in primary school. Because the world around you has a lot of words in it, and it's a useful skill to have. And as has been proven by history, a citizenry with a grasp of writing and rhetoric has a much better chance of standing up for themselves! Nor is everyone Pythagoras or Euclid, but we still teach people counting and adding and geometry in primary school. We do so because the world around you is full of numbers, so it's a useful skill to have. And a citizenry with a basic grasp of numbers and logic is harder to mislead. In the 21st century, the world around you is now full of programs too. * The clothes you wear (looms were programmed with punch cards before computers even existed) * The telephone in your pocket * Your credit/debit/loyalty/etc cards in your wallet for interfacing with diverse services * Your key-fob which interacts with your car in magical ways. * Computers on every desk, in every car, in every tractor, controlling factories, administering stores... etc And not just that, remember that your body itself has kinds of programs at two different levels at least. * DNA transcription is very reminiscent of Turing machine. * Neural Networks are all the rage in ML and AI these days. Humans have these built in too. Albeit a very advanced, powerful, and efficient variant. So why shouldn't we teach everyone the basics of programming, even if just a little? We needn't expect them to become Linus Torvalds or John Carmack or anything. Just enough so they're a little familiar with the magic behind the curtain. Maybe that's just enough intuition to still be able to eg. fix a modern tractor or a car?

danjoredd 4y ago
TBH I have never really agreed with the idea that coding is the new reading/writing. Thats like saying everyone needs to be taught mechanics because everyone drives cars, or everyone needs to know engineering because we use machines. Reading, writing, and math are completely essential because they allow communication. If you don't know how math works you can't use money. If you don't know how to read or write, you cannot have a job. Even Walmart and Subway have those as required skills, because you cannot perform the job without them, and those are as bottom of the barrel as jobs get. Coding is useful, but lets be real...most people don't care and don't need to care as long as it works. It is not required to do their jobs. You can do more if you know coding, sure, and it might even give you a leg up in some fields. But when something breaks most people would rather just call the help desk guy to fix it rather than waste time fixing it themselves. Perhaps a single course could work, but again, lets be real...these are children we are talking about, and only a few of them are going to actually learn anything. I talked to a few high schoolers who took it as an elective and they said they just took it because their parents wanted them to, and they didn't retain anything because they didn't WANT to learn how to code. If we give it to every kid, it might give some an interest, but for the majority it will just be more useless knowledge they will discard. That being said, as fond as I am of English and math, I don't think we have to teach it as much as we do. What we learn simply isn't useful, and we relearn it in college anyways. After 3rd grade you don't learn anything new in English, and you just get the same lessons over and over again each year. It certainly doesn't help. Math is important, but I also think that we should put a more utilitarian spin on math, as very few people will need to know calculus. Consumer math is the superior course, as it is something that people actually use. I don't regret taking it in high school, since the calculus class I would have taken I ended up learning in college anyway. TL;DR, I think high school learning should be more utilitarian than it is.
- Kim_Bruning 4y ago
  I think we're coming from different angles, but are likely to end up in the middle. You don't need to know everything yourself. But you can derive a lot of power over your environment just knowing what things are possible, and who to ask for help (and how to ask it!). To do that, you need to know a little bit about a lot of fields : mechanics, engineering, electricity ... and definitely including programming, because that's everywhere these days. That's one argument at least. [[ Another argument is that it really does help if you're not helpless to hold a screwdriver, put in a light-bulb, change a tire, or write a small program. But that's for another day. ]]