7 ms·

Lem wasn't Soviet, he was Polish. It's strange he also considers Victor Pelevin to be a Soviet writer as all his novels were released after 1991.

by omega3 4y ago

chucksmash 4y ago
Well, he did it on purpose at any rate: > I am a citizen of the sentence first and foremost, and so when I read Pelevin uncorking a massive, soaring line from within Omon’s young consciousness, I did not think: “does this qualify as Soviet if it’s about the Soviet space program but it’s published in 1991?”
- omega3 4y ago
  I think he's either intellectually lazy or dishonest vis a vis my other comments. Even the publishing date in this case is suspect, every single source I could find it lists it as 1992 and not 1991. Either way I'd expect better from someone who is an University teacher. > PATRICK MCGINTY (...) teaches in the Department of Languages, Literatures, Cultures, and Writing at Slippery Rock University
defrost 4y ago
Polish in birth and in spirit, a Soviet writer by location duing his more productive years: > Lem was born in 1921 in Lwów, interwar Poland (now Lviv, Ukraine) > In 1945, Lwow was annexed into the Soviet Ukraine, and the family, along with many other Polish citizens, was resettled to Kraków, where Lem, at his father's insistence, took up medical studies at the Jagiellonian University. > After the war, under the Polish People's Republic (officially declared in 1952), the intellectual and academic community of Kraków came under complete political control. The universities were soon deprived of printing rights and autonomy.[79] The Stalinist government of Poland ordered the construction of the country's largest steel mill in the newly-created suburb of Nowa Huta.[80] The creation of the giant Lenin Steelworks (now Sendzimir Steelworks owned by Mittal) sealed Kraków's transformation from a university city into an industrial centre. It's a stretch, but not by much, to consider Lem as someone who spent time under the Soviet umbrella. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w
- omega3 4y ago
  Poland was never part of Soviet union. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union
  - trasz 4y ago
    It was a part of Soviet Bloc though.
    - omega3 4y ago
      By the same logic a writer from Turkey which was part of Western Bloc should be called a western writer? What about a writer from Japan?
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  That's a mighty stretch you try to construct. Born in Poland, lived in Poland, just had the bad luck for being there during times when soviets cough cough russians were taking whatever want, and terrorizing the rest. For most Polish people this would be quite an insult even disregarding current war waged by russia just next to them, which is pretty much impossible to ignore if you live there.
  - myth_drannon 4y ago
    But wasn't Poland occupying the city from 1918-1939? It was Austro-Hungarian city beforehand? Also I wouldn't characterize Soviet occupation as bad luck and Polish as a heaven on earth. Yes, he was born in 1921, 3 years after Polish army invaded the city and terrorized it. I don't know enough history about the period until 1939, but just extrapolating 1918 events to the whole period of Polish occupation.
    - omega3 4y ago
      > I don't know enough history Clearly.
jeejay 4y ago
Also Pelevin is a postmodernist rather than a sci-fi writer
- monista 4y ago
  The genre he works in is often described as hyper-realism.
przefur 4y ago
Yeah, it felt so wrong to see Lem up there. The fact that he was renowned in Soviet Union does not make him any Soviet. From what I've read of his works + his biography, he reminds me more of early US science-fiction writers than any of soviet ones.
- thriftwy 4y ago
  This is only if you discount his early works such as The Magellanic Cloud, where he is a world communism adept wearing rose-coloured glasses, through which many of his readers, including ones in core Soviet Union, would perceive reality and future prospects. Eastern European writers did contribute a sizeable bookshelf of writings about bright space communist future, until it began to turn sour. One lesser-known one who I remember from my childhood is Pavel Vezhinov's Death of Ajax. UPD: Maybe we should use Eastern Bloc Science Fiction as a term?
  - omega3 4y ago
    Even if he was a communist it still wouldn't make him soviet.
    - thriftwy 4y ago
      The issue here is "Soviet" is not a given name but (supposedly) a mode of government. One like Democracy and Republic and the literal translation is "Council". So, you can surely be democratic outside of (hypothetical) Democratic Union, much like you may be soviet outside of USSR.
  - watwut 4y ago
    I think that Eastern European would be nuch better term then Soviet. Or post-communist if you limit yourself to after 1989.
BrainVirus 4y ago
This is a great comment to illustrate how ideology (especially various brands of nationalism) destroys genuine dialog. Instead of talking about the writers and their works people are now talking about which pigeonhole each writer belongs to. Not because those pigeonholes improve anyone's understanding of the books, mind you. It's a matter of taking credit for their works and applying those credits to the current meta-narrative.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > which pigeonhole each writer belongs to That strongly influences, actually directly shapes, what works does the writer or the artist produces.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    > That strongly influences, actually directly shapes, what works does the writer or the artist produces. You're putting the cart before the horse.
    - unity1001 4y ago
      Nope. We are all products of our culture. Our parents, our upbringing, education in school. Our friends. Our first experiences, and of course, the ideology that we have obtained during the process. The ideology mostly comes built into the society's culture, education and work life. So there is no such thing as 'ideologically neutral' or "I don't have an ideology". Its just that people think that the ideology that they have is 'normal', and they don't identify it as an ideology unless it conflicts with the incumbent ideology in the society.
      - bootsup 4y ago
        Yes, although sometimes people feel their country is not normal. "In a normal country, this would not happen," many Russian people said, especially in the '90s between Yeltsin's US-backed coup and the 1998 collapse.
timonoko 4y ago
"Soviet Block" maybe the correct expression. I (somehow) enjoyed subtle nuances they injected in opposition of Soviet Rule. But it did not go unnoticed. I remember very particular Russian TV-series about Arctic Explorers on Finnish TV, which censored scenes where the crew ignored stupid and repulsive Communist Party official.

Lem wasn't Soviet, he was Polish. It's strange he also considers Victor Pelevin to be a Soviet writer as all his novels were released after 1991.

by omega3 4y ago

Lem wasn't Soviet, he was Polish. It's strange he also considers Victor Pelevin to be a Soviet writer as all his novels were released after 1991.

chucksmash 4y ago

Well, he did it on purpose at any rate: > I am a citizen of the sentence first and foremost, and so when I read Pelevin uncorking a massive, soaring line from within Omon’s young consciousness, I did not think: “does this qualify as Soviet if it’s about the Soviet space program but it’s published in 1991?”

omega3 4y ago
I think he's either intellectually lazy or dishonest vis a vis my other comments. Even the publishing date in this case is suspect, every single source I could find it lists it as 1992 and not 1991. Either way I'd expect better from someone who is an University teacher. > PATRICK MCGINTY (...) teaches in the Department of Languages, Literatures, Cultures, and Writing at Slippery Rock University

defrost 4y ago

Polish in birth and in spirit, a Soviet writer by location duing his more productive years: > Lem was born in 1921 in Lwów, interwar Poland (now Lviv, Ukraine) > In 1945, Lwow was annexed into the Soviet Ukraine, and the family, along with many other Polish citizens, was resettled to Kraków, where Lem, at his father's insistence, took up medical studies at the Jagiellonian University. > After the war, under the Polish People's Republic (officially declared in 1952), the intellectual and academic community of Kraków came under complete political control. The universities were soon deprived of printing rights and autonomy.[79] The Stalinist government of Poland ordered the construction of the country's largest steel mill in the newly-created suburb of Nowa Huta.[80] The creation of the giant Lenin Steelworks (now Sendzimir Steelworks owned by Mittal) sealed Kraków's transformation from a university city into an industrial centre. It's a stretch, but not by much, to consider Lem as someone who spent time under the Soviet umbrella. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w

omega3 4y ago
Poland was never part of Soviet union. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union
- trasz 4y ago
  It was a part of Soviet Bloc though.
  - omega3 4y ago
    By the same logic a writer from Turkey which was part of Western Bloc should be called a western writer? What about a writer from Japan?
saiya-jin 4y ago
That's a mighty stretch you try to construct. Born in Poland, lived in Poland, just had the bad luck for being there during times when soviets cough cough russians were taking whatever want, and terrorizing the rest. For most Polish people this would be quite an insult even disregarding current war waged by russia just next to them, which is pretty much impossible to ignore if you live there.
- myth_drannon 4y ago
  But wasn't Poland occupying the city from 1918-1939? It was Austro-Hungarian city beforehand? Also I wouldn't characterize Soviet occupation as bad luck and Polish as a heaven on earth. Yes, he was born in 1921, 3 years after Polish army invaded the city and terrorized it. I don't know enough history about the period until 1939, but just extrapolating 1918 events to the whole period of Polish occupation.
  - omega3 4y ago
    > I don't know enough history Clearly.

jeejay 4y ago

Also Pelevin is a postmodernist rather than a sci-fi writer

monista 4y ago
The genre he works in is often described as hyper-realism.

przefur 4y ago

Yeah, it felt so wrong to see Lem up there. The fact that he was renowned in Soviet Union does not make him any Soviet. From what I've read of his works + his biography, he reminds me more of early US science-fiction writers than any of soviet ones.

thriftwy 4y ago
This is only if you discount his early works such as The Magellanic Cloud, where he is a world communism adept wearing rose-coloured glasses, through which many of his readers, including ones in core Soviet Union, would perceive reality and future prospects. Eastern European writers did contribute a sizeable bookshelf of writings about bright space communist future, until it began to turn sour. One lesser-known one who I remember from my childhood is Pavel Vezhinov's Death of Ajax. UPD: Maybe we should use Eastern Bloc Science Fiction as a term?
- omega3 4y ago
  Even if he was a communist it still wouldn't make him soviet.
  - thriftwy 4y ago
    The issue here is "Soviet" is not a given name but (supposedly) a mode of government. One like Democracy and Republic and the literal translation is "Council". So, you can surely be democratic outside of (hypothetical) Democratic Union, much like you may be soviet outside of USSR.
- watwut 4y ago
  I think that Eastern European would be nuch better term then Soviet. Or post-communist if you limit yourself to after 1989.

BrainVirus 4y ago

This is a great comment to illustrate how ideology (especially various brands of nationalism) destroys genuine dialog. Instead of talking about the writers and their works people are now talking about which pigeonhole each writer belongs to. Not because those pigeonholes improve anyone's understanding of the books, mind you. It's a matter of taking credit for their works and applying those credits to the current meta-narrative.

unity1001 4y ago
> which pigeonhole each writer belongs to That strongly influences, actually directly shapes, what works does the writer or the artist produces.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > That strongly influences, actually directly shapes, what works does the writer or the artist produces. You're putting the cart before the horse.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    Nope. We are all products of our culture. Our parents, our upbringing, education in school. Our friends. Our first experiences, and of course, the ideology that we have obtained during the process. The ideology mostly comes built into the society's culture, education and work life. So there is no such thing as 'ideologically neutral' or "I don't have an ideology". Its just that people think that the ideology that they have is 'normal', and they don't identify it as an ideology unless it conflicts with the incumbent ideology in the society.
    - bootsup 4y ago
      Yes, although sometimes people feel their country is not normal. "In a normal country, this would not happen," many Russian people said, especially in the '90s between Yeltsin's US-backed coup and the 1998 collapse.

timonoko 4y ago

"Soviet Block" maybe the correct expression. I (somehow) enjoyed subtle nuances they injected in opposition of Soviet Rule. But it did not go unnoticed. I remember very particular Russian TV-series about Arctic Explorers on Finnish TV, which censored scenes where the crew ignored stupid and repulsive Communist Party official.