35 ms·
Carrier IQ references discovered in Apple's iOS
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- Samuel_Michon 15y agoWow. That leaves Windows Phone and Bada as the only mobile OSes where no Carrier IQ references have been found so far.
- cryptoz 15y agoKind of. It's not been found in the actual Android operating system, has it? Only in carrier- or manufacturer-modified versions correct?
- shareme 15y agocorrect, which means that the Carrier, AT&T originally made it part of its deal with Apple..
- magic_haze 15y agoAnd most probably, Microsoft as well: there has been no evidence to the contrary yet.
- Athtar 15y agoGiven that carriers are only limited to 5 apps and can't make any changes to the Windows Phone OS, I would doubt that there are any Windows Phone devices with Carrier IQ.
- cryptoz 15y agoI thought carriers were limited to 0 apps and couldn't make changes to iOS. However, that appears to be completely incorrect. Windows Phone may be safe or it may not be. But the argument that carriers couldn't touch WP7 doesn't hold any water given what seems to be happening with iOS.
- Synaesthesia 15y ago>But the argument that carriers couldn't touch WP7 doesn't hold any water given what seems to be happening with iOS. That argument was exploded in the whole WP7 update catastrophe earlier this year. Carriers blocked the WP7 updates.
- runjake 15y agoIt has been confirmed by several knowledgeable people that the CIQ rootkit doesn't seem to be installed on any Nexus devices as shipped.
- megablast 15y agoOr the OSes that nobody has looked at yet?
- mey 15y agoHas anyone compiled a list of devices confirmed with CIQ, confirmed not to have, unknown and suspected?
- gurkendoktor 15y agoIt is not device, it is device-per-carrier. If the same device models had been sold with silently acticated CarrierIQ in the EU, that would be a lot of fun for lawyers.
- Kylekramer 15y agoCompanies love data. Every last of one of them from your local grocery store to Apple. Love it, want as much of it as possible. Heck, most of the major publicized features of iOS 5 put your data on Apple's servers (iMessage: your texts and MMS; Siri: pretty much every thing including searches, calendars, and email; iCloud: it is called iCloud). Long and short of it is that if you want privacy beyond "I'm boring, so no one cares", a device that holds pretty much every important bit of info about you made by large corporations that is nearly always connected to the internet via carriers isn't really for you.
- Samuel_Michon 15y agoIf you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold. That's why I don't use Gmail. When I pay for cloud services (like MobileMe, now iCloud) I feel more confident that my personal information isn't analyzed, sold, and used to manipulate me. Apple doesn't need to sell my data to profit from me. I value my privacy but I'm not Richard Stallman. I carry a cell phone, so there's a chance I'm being tracked. I like viewing web sites in a graphical web browser (not Chrome) -- it has JavaScript permanently turned on, I accept some cookies, and I find the geolocation service convenient. I understand I'm giving up some privacy by doing all that.
- Xuzz 15y agoOkay, so you say "not Chrome". You realize that Chrome is pretty completely open source and does not send browsing history back to Google?
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- molesy 15y agoChromium is open source. Chrome is mostly open source. Both send a significant amount of data to either Google or your default search provider by default unless you tell them not to. I primarily use Chromium and I've been through the process of disabling all of its reporting several times - it seems to get easier over time, though following the code that might call out gets significantly more difficult. I currently have my default search provider set to Bing because I hate searching from the navigation bar anyways and it really annoys me that there's no way to turn it off. I suppose that's the price I pay for using a browser built by a search engine. I fondly remember the days when Michael Arrington was some corporate puke working for RealNames, a search-from-the-URL-bar concept that everyone outside of RealNames and Microsoft hated. Literally. Everyone. Google made Mozilla profitable by paying them to be the default search engine. The moment they figured out that worked was probably the last moment browsing was safe anywhere - and the last moment being a Mozilla employee was safe as a long term goal for anyone, oddly enough.
- epistasis 15y agoPerhaps now this story will get the media storm it deserves.
- leoc 15y agoI'm happy to assume that iOS's Carrier IQ, er, integration is much less comprehensive than what has been put into Android handsets, and may never have been activated at all. Nonetheless I can't resist pointing at http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/11/30/imagine-if-it-were-apple http://daringfireball.net/linked/2011/11/30/imagine-if-it-we... and muttering something about seafood stew. UPDATE: And if Apple's Carrier IQ code is only ever activated in an opt-in diagnostics mode, then it may be in the clear completely here.
- brisance 15y agoApparently some folks on androidcentral picked it up a little more than a year ago. http://forums.androidcentral.com/sprint-optimus-s/45729-ever-wondered-what-iqagent.html http://forums.androidcentral.com/sprint-optimus-s/45729-ever...
- X-Istence 15y agoI wish we could get straight answers from Apple, HTC, Nokia, Samsung and others as to whether this tracking technology is located within devices they are selling, on what carriers and what is happening with the data, what is logged, where is it logged, what it shipped from the device up to remote servers, and exactly how is that data being used?
- omouse 15y agoWho cares! It's time for a free/opensource firmware and operating system you can flash into the ROM of any and all phones. The phone manufacturers, the software makers and the carriers have proven hostile to consumers, there's no reason for them to be allowed to control things any more.
- thought_alarm 15y agoThat's what privacy policies are for.
- nirvana 15y agoSeveral issues with this story: 1. The reference is found in a 2 year old version of iOS. 2. "IQAgent" sounds like things Apple could name, e.g.: I've seen no evidence that this has anything to do with CarrierIQ. There's been no disassembly (unless I missed it) so it quite possibly could simply be the fact that at one point Apple used the two letters "IQ" in an obscure file. 3. People watch the data iPhones transmit pretty closely, I know I have on occasion watched iOS devices talking to the cloud. If "every keystroke, every SMS" were being logged, I'd think people would have more than just a filename to go on. 4. As mentioned it seems this file is not used outside of diagnostic mode, which makes this much ado about nothing at this point. I think its fine to be suspicious, but these things really should be approached with some objective detachment until actual transmission of user data that shouldn't happen is uncovered. I don't know how many of the points above apply to the "indications" in android as well, but I think we should have more neutral, unemotional, and detached coverage of it as well. I think spying on people is bad, and I think that americans are spied on more today than ever before. I think that's also why we have to be really careful about reporting it. Edit: Deleted a digression that pointed out that the government is including language in recent legislation that allows them to collect data about us that previously would have been illegal. This was a distraction from my main point.
- Caballera 15y agoA lot of what you said makes sense.. I don't understand why it's been down voted.
- runjake 15y agoThe article was updated to include iOS 5 long before you made this comment, by at least 1.5 hours. It's Carrier IQ stuff. See chpwn's frequently updating blog post at: http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737 http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737
- lachyg 15y agoJust to make it clear to anyone that doesn't click the link; it only transmits in a diagnostics mode, which is defaulted to 'off'.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- tlear 15y agoAnyone seen any specifics about CIQ on blackberry? I hear reference to it in the original Eckhart video but can not seem to find real data
- doe88 15y agoHere are the result of the current investigations made by @chpwn http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737 http://blog.chpwn.com/post/13572216737 I'm an iOS user and I'm concerned by this, I know that maybe these data are not sent to any remote server or maybe it depends on the carrier, but still I'm concerned that Apple would integrate a third party binary on its system. That's plain wrong for me. I want them to tell us what their phone collect, what their phone send to remote servers and for what uses. It is a matter of trust, trust is hard to gain and easy to lose and I think that Apple should handle this asset with great care.
- Anechoic 15y agostill I'm concerned that Apple would integrate a third party binary on its system Really? Based on the "Legal" section of my 3rd gen iPod touch, there appears to be a bunch of third-party binaries integrated into iOS.
- doe88 15y agoI didn't say third party code but third party binary. That's not the same thing, there are plenty of third party libraries used in iOS indeed. But, you must recognize that's highly unusual for Apple to bundle third party software in iOS and even more when the type of software is by nature highly risked and highly controversial such as logging/tracking softwares are.
- michaelcampbell 15y ago> But, you must recognize that's highly unusual for Apple to bundle third party software in iOS Honestly, how would anyone but Apple know this?
- lloeki 15y agoWy 3rd party? It might just as well be implemented by Apple currently, and using CarrierIQ as a service.
- iLoveApple 15y agoI don't care if Apple spies on me. Apple is nice, not like all those other companies. I love my iPhone! So beautful. So easy to use. Steve Job is my hero!
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- kumarm 15y agoWill Fortune Pay losses for (non Apple) Smartphone Manufacturers for costing them sales now? http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/11/30/extremetech-carrier-iq-gate-is-best-reason-to-buy-an-iphone/ http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/11/30/extremetech-carrier-i...
- leoh 15y agoIt turns out the setting to disable statistics is a bit tricky to get to. On the latest version of iOS, I found it at Settings>General>About>Diagnostics & Usage.
- ugh 15y agoAs far as I know you are explicitly asked whether you want to enable Diagnostics & Usage when you first set up the device. (It’s one of the steps in the setup process.) I don’t know what the default setting for that is, though.
- dusing 15y agoThere is no default, they make you choose during setup. Location is the same.
- ugh 15y agoYour comment made me look for a video of the setup process. The relevant step is at 2:40: http://vimeo.com/24789410 http://vimeo.com/24789410 Turns out there is a default and it defaults to being turned off. You can immediately tap next and Diagnostics will be turned off. Here is the exact text: Diagnostics Automatically Send Don’t Send (selected option) Help Apple improve its products and services by automatically sending anonymous diagnostic and usage data. About Diagnostics & Usage (this is a link) — Here is the text behind the link: Apple would like your help to improve the quality and performance of its products and services. Your device can automatically collect diagnostic and usage information and send it to Apple for analysis — but only with your explicit consent. Diagnostic and usage information may include details about hardware and operating system specifications, performance statistics, and data about how you use your device and applications. None of the collected information identifies you personally. Personal data is either not logged at all or is removed from any reports before they’re sent to Apple. You can review the information by going to Settings, tapping General, tapping About and looking under Diagnostics & Usage. If you have consented to provide Apple with this information, and you have Location Services turned on, the location of your device may also be sent to help Apple analyze wireless or cellular performance issues (for example, the strength or weakness of a cellular signal in a particular location). This diagnostic location data may include the location of your device once per day, or the location where a call ends. You may choose to turn off Location Services for Diagnostics at any time. To do so, open Settings, tap Location Services, tap System Services and turn off the Diagnostics switch. You may also choose to turn off Diagnostics altogether. To do so, open Settings, tap General, tap About and choose “Don’t Send” under Diagnostics & Usage. To help Apple’s partners and third-party developers improve their apps, products and services designed for use with Apple products, Apple may provide such partners or developers with a subset of diagnostic information that is relevant to that partner’s or developer’s app, product or service, as long as the diagnostic information is aggregated or in a form that does not personally identify you. For more information, see Apple’s Privacy Policy at www.apple.com/privacy
- aheilbut 15y agoSurely whatever this is tracking is covered under the contracts with the carriers. Someone must have read them...
- 1010100101 15y agoI imagine there might be other software/consulting companies in the business of stealthily collecting GB and PB's of personal data about consumers using wired and mobile networks who are thinking "Am I next?" And I imagine some of their employees' minds might now be filling with thoughts about how to justify what they do, or to discount the need for anyone to make a big deal about what they do. Will consumers care about what's booting when they turn on their phone, or what connections their phones are making? This will be very interesting.
- 1010100101 15y agoproper grammar: Are we next?
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- naico 15y agogood
- berend 15y agoWhat i wonder is, who gets the data? Is it the carrier or Apple?
- OoTheNigerian 15y agoWhy is Carrier IQ being made the villain here? From what I understand, they provide a service which has been abused by the phone manufacturers probably in conjunction with the carriers. Logitech makes web-cams, would you hold them responsible if you found them hidden in hotel rooms and they were put there based on request by the CIA? Let us hold the right people responsible. That will mean Apple, HTC, Samsung, RIM etc.
- hsshah 15y agoIt's not a proper comparison. Using your analogy, Logitech should be held more liable if the video streams from the webcams were uploaded to Logitech's server. Would you agree?
- OoTheNigerian 15y agoIt is a proper comparison but not complete. Your server addition completes it. I would direct my anger at the hotel who I have a contract and relationship with.
- forgotAgain 15y agoCarrier IQ has stated that the information collected is transmitted to and stored on their network. They are playing an active role in this and are not just a software publisher whose wares are being misused.
- rytis 15y agoJust another angle to approach the problem: I suppose one way to fight this is to develop some sort of "multiple personalities" behaviour and habits. There's "normal A" me, who goes to work every day, using the same route, checking the same webpages on route, doing the same web searches while at work, sending the same type of messages on IM during the day, etc, etc. Then there's another me, "normal B", with his own habits and hobbies. But normal A and normal B should not overlap in terms of devices, friends, maybe even (online) behaviour. Location is bit more difficult, especially when you're at home. Home should be associated with only one "persona". Once you make a conscious effort it might become easier with time, and thus hiding your real "identity". Drawbacks?... Well, sounds bit like DID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder), so don't get caught accidentally :)
- Tyrannosaurs 15y agoAlternatively you can just use this sort of mechanism to screw with them. How many people can we get to take out some sort of loyalty card which tracks your behaviour and then use it to buy only root vegetables and lube?
- naico 15y agoghkjhgk
- gurkendoktor 15y agoWhen I upgraded to iOS5, I was asked if I wanted to help Apple by automatically sending anonymous usage data. Doesn't this sound like exactly what CarrierIQ would be doing? If this is really what it is, then this is a total non-issue on iOS. See here (for those not on iOS5): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxBsKO2lJQk#t=42s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxBsKO2lJQk#t=42s But if this is CarrierIQ working there, then it means it's also being used in Europe. And it probably also means that the media will get in an iOS vs Android fight again instead of highlighting the issue. And FWIW, it surprises me much more that RIM would do crap like that.
- mikerg87 15y agoI will give he befit of the doubt to apple right now. Remeber that Steve was talking about iAd and one of the benefits was that they hated how personal data was just taken from users. And privacy was a problem in apple' link up to FacEBook which didn't happen. If it's active - its going to leave a huge huge mark.
- jritch 15y agoApple would like your help to improve the quality and performance of its products and services. Your device can automatically collect diagnostic and usage information and send it to Apple for analysis — but only with your explicit consent. Diagnostic and usage information may include details about hardware and operating system specifications, performance statistics, and data about how you use your device and applications. None of the collected information identifies you personally. Personal data is either not logged at all or is removed from any reports before they’re sent to Apple. You can review the information by going to Settings, tapping General, tapping About and looking under Diagnostics & Usage. If you have consented to provide Apple with this information, and you have Location Services turned on, the location of your device may also be sent to help Apple analyze wireless or cellular performance issues (for example, the strength or weakness of a cellular signal in a particular location). This diagnostic location data may include the location of your device once per day, or the location where a call ends. You may choose to turn off Location Services for Diagnostics at any time. To do so, open Settings, tap Location Services, tap System Services and turn off the Diagnostics switch. You may also choose to turn off Diagnostics altogether. To do so, open Settings, tap General, tap About and choose “Don’t Send” under Diagnostics & Usage. To help Apple’s partners and third-party developers improve their apps, products and services designed for use with Apple products, Apple may provide such partners or developers with a subset of diagnostic information that is relevant to that partner’s or developer’s app, product or service, as long as the diagnostic information is aggregated or in a form that does not personally identify you. For more information, see Apple’s Privacy Policy at www.apple.com/privacy
- alantrrs 15y agouhmm...this sound more and more like a Carnivore reloaded
- justinweiss 15y agoIf you're interested, you can see the data the iPhone has collected so far -- Go to Settings -> General -> About -> Diagnostics -> Diagnostic & Usage Data.