4 ms·

> Digital libraries destroy this balance. The content of books is available to everyone, instantly, at maximum convenience. What you are describing is a wonder

> Digital libraries destroy this balance. The content of books is available to everyone, instantly, at maximum convenience. What you are describing is a wonderful result that happens to fail due to our economic system which requires everyone to constantly seek profitable activities to survive. If seeking profitable activity was optional, authors could write books as their passion drives them, and then share them with everyone for free on a global library. Most creators create because they want to do so, and the profit is incidental as they require some profit to survive. But if we have an economic system that can’t handle maximum convenience of a free worldwide digital library, it’s worth considering systems that would allow for that.

nindalf 4y ago
Ok, go ahead and consider alternate economic systems. But until we have that new system, would it be alright to continue to respect the wishes of authors who have created creative works under the current economic system? Consent is important. We can’t opt them into our hypothetical passion-driven economic system where is everything is free against their will. Individual authors might opt in, and it’s fair game to pirate their work. But let’s not decide on behalf of other people.
- mcculley 4y ago
  The decision is not entirely on the author. Jurisdictions have to decide how much they are willing to spend and how far they are willing to go to enforce copyright, potentially forever. Technological advances are going to make it very hard to enforce copyright.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    > Technological advances are going to make it very hard to enforce copyright. Alternately, technological advances are going to make it much easier to control everything a person has access to, constantly monitor everything they access, and identify/punish those who access unauthorized material.
    - mcculley 4y ago
      I currently mirror many terabytes of content onto external hard drives. I have loaned copies out to many people, who have made their own copies. I will continue to loan to anyone who asks. What technological advances do you imagine preventing me and others from doing this? Storage will continue to decrease in cost. It will only get easier to duplicate these libraries. What happens when they fit on a phone or a thumb drive?
      - autoexec 4y ago
        > What technological advances do you imagine preventing me and others from doing this? DRM "Trusted Computing" and spying at the OS level mostly. Your friend will plug in the external hard drive. Their OS will immediately scan the contents, upload filenames/hashes to a server to compare them against anything they consider illegal or unacceptable. Any attempt to play media will require your computer to connect to the internet to verify that you have a valid license for it. Your friend's OS will be 100% cloud based (Windows360 SE) making every device basically a dumb terminal and anything they do on their computer could be watched and analyzed in real time for signs of illegal activity (and market research). Your files may not even be accessible at all for your friends since the OS could stamp each file with an ID and remote attestation could prevent any unauthorized computer/user account from viewing the files. You can't authorize all your friends computers without de-authorizing your own. Limited number of authorizations per year. Any attempts to access unauthorized content could be logged and reported to authorities. See also: https://nakamotoinstitute.org/right-to-read/ https://nakamotoinstitute.org/right-to-read/
        mcculley 4y ago
        I have no doubt that there will be advances in DRM. I am entirely unconvinced that machines without DRM will be unobtainable.
        autoexec 4y ago
        Very soon you won't be able to buy a computer with a modern processor from either Intel or AMD that doesn't include code written by Microsoft designed to prevent your computer from booting at all unless it's got Windows installed. Currently they allow you to toggle a switch in software that will let you bypass that restriction, but no promises that it'll stay that way (https://www.wired.com/story/microsoft-pluton-secure-processor/ https://www.wired.com/story/microsoft-pluton-secure-processo...) and (https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/59931.html https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/59931.html) DRM is in every browser, and even in the HTML5 spec. Every computer/monitor that supports HDMI already has DRM included in it designed to prevent you from making unauthorized copies of high quality video content. Like all DRM it's illegal to bypass that. Starting with Windows 10 (although a windows update later added it to 7 and 8) Microsoft collects your filenames. Apple already wanted to scan their customer's personal files for illegal content. We're much much closer to that reality than I'd like. There's already very little hope of getting away from DRM.
marcusverus 4y ago
> But if we have an economic system that can’t handle maximum convenience of a free worldwide digital library, it’s worth considering systems that would allow for that. I honestly cannot think of a more trivial reason to tinker with the system of incentives that undergirds the global economy. Anyway, the free worldwide digital library already exists at library dot lol.
- SequoiaHope 4y ago
  That we could make an authorized free library for everyone in the world is just one benefit. If we also eliminate patents and all intellectual property restrictions we’d see a much higher rate of innovation. Contrary to the fairy tales we’re told by those who benefit from holding patents, I’m convinced that intellectual property restrictions dramatically slow down the rate of innovation. But there is a big difference between an illegal pirate library and an authorized global library. The latter would be much better for everyone. And you might be surprised to realize that providing a basic standard of living for every person does not require dismantling the larger capitalist system. Corporations buying raw materials could still pay in currency. I’m just describing a world where food and shelter and clothing and individual transportation and medical care are provided to everyone. This doesn’t even require dismantling the broader capitalist system.
  - marcusverus 4y ago
    > If we also eliminate patents and all intellectual property restrictions we’d see a much higher rate of innovation. Contrary to the fairy tales we’re told by those who benefit from holding patents, I’m convinced that intellectual property restrictions dramatically slow down the rate of innovation. This claim is contrary to common sense. If there are no IP protections, why would I write a novel? The moment I share it, every publisher on the planet can print it for free, without paying me a penny. If I invent a widget, Walmart can use their established supply chains to build my widget for cheaper and distribute it wider than I ever could. Why would I put in all the work required to invent my widget only for some soulless corporation to profit from my labor? > The latter would be much better for everyone. So we remake the global economic system... to remove the odium that accompanies pirating IP? > And you might be surprised to realize that providing a basic standard of living for every person does not require dismantling the larger capitalist system. Obviously--every single nation with a high standard of living has achieved it via free markets.

nindalf 4y ago

Ok, go ahead and consider alternate economic systems. But until we have that new system, would it be alright to continue to respect the wishes of authors who have created creative works under the current economic system? Consent is important. We can’t opt them into our hypothetical passion-driven economic system where is everything is free against their will. Individual authors might opt in, and it’s fair game to pirate their work. But let’s not decide on behalf of other people.

mcculley 4y ago
The decision is not entirely on the author. Jurisdictions have to decide how much they are willing to spend and how far they are willing to go to enforce copyright, potentially forever. Technological advances are going to make it very hard to enforce copyright.
- autoexec 4y ago
  > Technological advances are going to make it very hard to enforce copyright. Alternately, technological advances are going to make it much easier to control everything a person has access to, constantly monitor everything they access, and identify/punish those who access unauthorized material.
  - mcculley 4y ago
    I currently mirror many terabytes of content onto external hard drives. I have loaned copies out to many people, who have made their own copies. I will continue to loan to anyone who asks. What technological advances do you imagine preventing me and others from doing this? Storage will continue to decrease in cost. It will only get easier to duplicate these libraries. What happens when they fit on a phone or a thumb drive?
    - autoexec 4y ago
      > What technological advances do you imagine preventing me and others from doing this? DRM "Trusted Computing" and spying at the OS level mostly. Your friend will plug in the external hard drive. Their OS will immediately scan the contents, upload filenames/hashes to a server to compare them against anything they consider illegal or unacceptable. Any attempt to play media will require your computer to connect to the internet to verify that you have a valid license for it. Your friend's OS will be 100% cloud based (Windows360 SE) making every device basically a dumb terminal and anything they do on their computer could be watched and analyzed in real time for signs of illegal activity (and market research). Your files may not even be accessible at all for your friends since the OS could stamp each file with an ID and remote attestation could prevent any unauthorized computer/user account from viewing the files. You can't authorize all your friends computers without de-authorizing your own. Limited number of authorizations per year. Any attempts to access unauthorized content could be logged and reported to authorities. See also: https://nakamotoinstitute.org/right-to-read/ https://nakamotoinstitute.org/right-to-read/
      - mcculley 4y ago
        I have no doubt that there will be advances in DRM. I am entirely unconvinced that machines without DRM will be unobtainable.
        autoexec 4y ago
        Very soon you won't be able to buy a computer with a modern processor from either Intel or AMD that doesn't include code written by Microsoft designed to prevent your computer from booting at all unless it's got Windows installed. Currently they allow you to toggle a switch in software that will let you bypass that restriction, but no promises that it'll stay that way (https://www.wired.com/story/microsoft-pluton-secure-processor/ https://www.wired.com/story/microsoft-pluton-secure-processo...) and (https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/59931.html https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/59931.html) DRM is in every browser, and even in the HTML5 spec. Every computer/monitor that supports HDMI already has DRM included in it designed to prevent you from making unauthorized copies of high quality video content. Like all DRM it's illegal to bypass that. Starting with Windows 10 (although a windows update later added it to 7 and 8) Microsoft collects your filenames. Apple already wanted to scan their customer's personal files for illegal content. We're much much closer to that reality than I'd like. There's already very little hope of getting away from DRM.

marcusverus 4y ago

> But if we have an economic system that can’t handle maximum convenience of a free worldwide digital library, it’s worth considering systems that would allow for that. I honestly cannot think of a more trivial reason to tinker with the system of incentives that undergirds the global economy. Anyway, the free worldwide digital library already exists at library dot lol.

SequoiaHope 4y ago
That we could make an authorized free library for everyone in the world is just one benefit. If we also eliminate patents and all intellectual property restrictions we’d see a much higher rate of innovation. Contrary to the fairy tales we’re told by those who benefit from holding patents, I’m convinced that intellectual property restrictions dramatically slow down the rate of innovation. But there is a big difference between an illegal pirate library and an authorized global library. The latter would be much better for everyone. And you might be surprised to realize that providing a basic standard of living for every person does not require dismantling the larger capitalist system. Corporations buying raw materials could still pay in currency. I’m just describing a world where food and shelter and clothing and individual transportation and medical care are provided to everyone. This doesn’t even require dismantling the broader capitalist system.
- marcusverus 4y ago
  > If we also eliminate patents and all intellectual property restrictions we’d see a much higher rate of innovation. Contrary to the fairy tales we’re told by those who benefit from holding patents, I’m convinced that intellectual property restrictions dramatically slow down the rate of innovation. This claim is contrary to common sense. If there are no IP protections, why would I write a novel? The moment I share it, every publisher on the planet can print it for free, without paying me a penny. If I invent a widget, Walmart can use their established supply chains to build my widget for cheaper and distribute it wider than I ever could. Why would I put in all the work required to invent my widget only for some soulless corporation to profit from my labor? > The latter would be much better for everyone. So we remake the global economic system... to remove the odium that accompanies pirating IP? > And you might be surprised to realize that providing a basic standard of living for every person does not require dismantling the larger capitalist system. Obviously--every single nation with a high standard of living has achieved it via free markets.