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IMAP is an ancient behemoth in strong need of modernization. JMAP is the replacement we have. Could modernization have been done with a dedicated protocol? I gu

by yyyk 4y ago

IMAP is an ancient behemoth in strong need of modernization. JMAP is the replacement we have. Could modernization have been done with a dedicated protocol? I guess so. But no one (including you) did the work to get it done, so JMAP it is.

verisimilitudes 4y ago
That's not the way this works. I needn't accept the WWW garbage graphomaniacs attempt to force upon others.
masklinn 4y ago
> Could modernization have been done with a dedicated protocol? I guess so. But probably not because it adds an other layer of friction and complexity to deployment, which doesn’t do much good to your odds. And it requires an entire additional ecosystem of inspection and protection capabilities to appear. Not to mention the parsing and serialisation of a bespoke protocol, and the risk of all the usual framing and escaping errors in the protocol. It also requires going to Iana for a port.
denton-scratch 4y ago
> so JMAP it is Except it isn't. As you say, IMAP could do with modernisation; JMAP isn't that, it's a replacement. If you want to replace a protocol that's in very widespread use, then your replacement needs to offer decisive benefits to operators and users, otherwise they won't switch. JMAP seems to offer benefits only to developers.
- yyyk 4y ago
  >As you say, IMAP could do with modernisation In theory that's doable. In practice modernizing a protocol with extensions is though, since support ends up patchy. Especially when the big email providers have few reasons to make a documented, non-propriety extension. Why would they when they can instead push people to their propriety apps? It's definitely possible that JMAP doesn't catch on. In that case, we'll probably just keep languishing with non-modernised IMAP. The key is getting client support, especially in mobile (where there is a noticeable user benefit) and in open source software.
- eestrada 4y ago
  > JMAP seems to offer benefits only to developers. I find this argument shortsighted. If it benefits developers then it does benefit users. Making developers' lives easier means they produce code faster (users like things done sooner), have fewer bugs in their code (users don't like buggy code), and have more time to implement other features (users like featureful software). I don't see how that doesn't benefit users.

by yyyk 4y ago

verisimilitudes 4y ago

That's not the way this works. I needn't accept the WWW garbage graphomaniacs attempt to force upon others.

masklinn 4y ago

> Could modernization have been done with a dedicated protocol? I guess so. But probably not because it adds an other layer of friction and complexity to deployment, which doesn’t do much good to your odds. And it requires an entire additional ecosystem of inspection and protection capabilities to appear. Not to mention the parsing and serialisation of a bespoke protocol, and the risk of all the usual framing and escaping errors in the protocol. It also requires going to Iana for a port.

denton-scratch 4y ago

> so JMAP it is Except it isn't. As you say, IMAP could do with modernisation; JMAP isn't that, it's a replacement. If you want to replace a protocol that's in very widespread use, then your replacement needs to offer decisive benefits to operators and users, otherwise they won't switch. JMAP seems to offer benefits only to developers.

yyyk 4y ago
>As you say, IMAP could do with modernisation In theory that's doable. In practice modernizing a protocol with extensions is though, since support ends up patchy. Especially when the big email providers have few reasons to make a documented, non-propriety extension. Why would they when they can instead push people to their propriety apps? It's definitely possible that JMAP doesn't catch on. In that case, we'll probably just keep languishing with non-modernised IMAP. The key is getting client support, especially in mobile (where there is a noticeable user benefit) and in open source software.
eestrada 4y ago
> JMAP seems to offer benefits only to developers. I find this argument shortsighted. If it benefits developers then it does benefit users. Making developers' lives easier means they produce code faster (users like things done sooner), have fewer bugs in their code (users don't like buggy code), and have more time to implement other features (users like featureful software). I don't see how that doesn't benefit users.