4 ms·

So does this partially vindicate the '80s moral panic - D&D is connected to ritualistic killings, it just happened decades earlier and had nothing to do with wh

So does this partially vindicate the '80s moral panic - D&D is connected to ritualistic killings, it just happened decades earlier and had nothing to do with what the hysteria claimed it was doing?

msbarnett 4y ago
Does this circumstantial suggestion that a man was involved in the 1960s zodiac killings partially vindicate the critics of Dungeons & Dragons (first published 1974)? I’m going to go with “no” and cite “the linear flow of time”.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  It's a little bit like McCarthy being retroactively proved marginally in the ballpark because the Venona papers uncovered Soviet infiltration.
  - msbarnett 4y ago
    It strikes me as even more tenuous than that because you could just as easily say “ah well there were no zodiac murders post-D&D, so obviously role playing slakes rather than inflames the psychopathic mind” or something.
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      To be fair, I said "connected", which could mean almost anything- not specifically "caused." It's interesting that if this Doerr theory is true, that means Zodiac really did resemble pop cultural conceptions of him and other Zodiac-inspired fictional killers: a geek, interested in nerdy fantasy hobbies once considered the province of social misfits. But then again, the occult-steeped tone of the letters and the ciphers themselves already gave that impression.
  - poopnugget 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - tptacek 4y ago
    The Venona papers didn't put McCarthy remotely in the ballpark. It's not as if the premise of Soviet infiltration was controversial; it was universally understood to be happening.
- vintermann 4y ago
  On the other hand, 1974 is when the killer ceased written communication, according to the Wikipedia article. Kind of macabre, and certainly not evidence, but it would be darkly hilarious if the reason the killer stopped was that he got into D&D. There wouldn't happen to be anyone here who played D&D with Paul Doerr in the 70s?
pengaru 4y ago
Practically every game developer of note and sufficient age interviewed has mentioned D&D being hugely influential on their lives/creative abilities. Is there an abnormally high rate of convicted murderers among game developers? Not AFAIK.
- Rediscover 4y ago
  I don't know what to say here. I am aware of a very probable "1" and an handful of possibles, fwiw. Akron/Cleveland area, 1983 tomaybe '87/'89. And also an extra - a very definite attempt, in public, too. Again, I don't know what to say. The concept that this is bothering to me is weird. (Yes, some of them worked for Tactical Studies Rules). OT: thanks (sic) now I'm on a slight bummer. OT2: No, really "Thanks!" - I have not been moved so much in some time. It's great to have this experience!
  - Rediscover 4y ago
    Also, all not convicted.

So does this partially vindicate the '80s moral panic - D&D is connected to ritualistic killings, it just happened decades earlier and had nothing to do with what the hysteria claimed it was doing?

msbarnett 4y ago

Does this circumstantial suggestion that a man was involved in the 1960s zodiac killings partially vindicate the critics of Dungeons & Dragons (first published 1974)? I’m going to go with “no” and cite “the linear flow of time”.

Apocryphon 4y ago
It's a little bit like McCarthy being retroactively proved marginally in the ballpark because the Venona papers uncovered Soviet infiltration.
- msbarnett 4y ago
  It strikes me as even more tenuous than that because you could just as easily say “ah well there were no zodiac murders post-D&D, so obviously role playing slakes rather than inflames the psychopathic mind” or something.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    To be fair, I said "connected", which could mean almost anything- not specifically "caused." It's interesting that if this Doerr theory is true, that means Zodiac really did resemble pop cultural conceptions of him and other Zodiac-inspired fictional killers: a geek, interested in nerdy fantasy hobbies once considered the province of social misfits. But then again, the occult-steeped tone of the letters and the ciphers themselves already gave that impression.
- poopnugget 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- tptacek 4y ago
  The Venona papers didn't put McCarthy remotely in the ballpark. It's not as if the premise of Soviet infiltration was controversial; it was universally understood to be happening.
vintermann 4y ago
On the other hand, 1974 is when the killer ceased written communication, according to the Wikipedia article. Kind of macabre, and certainly not evidence, but it would be darkly hilarious if the reason the killer stopped was that he got into D&D. There wouldn't happen to be anyone here who played D&D with Paul Doerr in the 70s?

pengaru 4y ago

Practically every game developer of note and sufficient age interviewed has mentioned D&D being hugely influential on their lives/creative abilities. Is there an abnormally high rate of convicted murderers among game developers? Not AFAIK.

Rediscover 4y ago
I don't know what to say here. I am aware of a very probable "1" and an handful of possibles, fwiw. Akron/Cleveland area, 1983 tomaybe '87/'89. And also an extra - a very definite attempt, in public, too. Again, I don't know what to say. The concept that this is bothering to me is weird. (Yes, some of them worked for Tactical Studies Rules). OT: thanks (sic) now I'm on a slight bummer. OT2: No, really "Thanks!" - I have not been moved so much in some time. It's great to have this experience!
- Rediscover 4y ago
  Also, all not convicted.