4 ms·

But there are APL, k, j and other array lang programs. You can't do as if those don't exist when talking about programming as a whole. Perl used to be pretty po

But there are APL, k, j and other array lang programs. You can't do as if those don't exist when talking about programming as a whole. Perl used to be pretty popular too.

ModernMech 4y ago
I didn't say array programming doesn't exist, I said it's not popular. How many people actually use those languages compared to e.g. Python, where readability is one of its main features. > Perl used to be pretty popular too And now it’s a meme due to how illegible it is. I’ll put it this way, there’s a reason Brainfuck is a joke lang instead of something people seriously use. Also, reading and writing are not orthogonal skills. One has to read to be able to write. I read my programs constantly as I'm writing them.
- jcelerier 4y ago
  and I am not writing about popularity, just saying that there are many in an absolute sense (which is honestly the only thing that matters in practice, relying on popularity of things relative to each other in a state of abundance is absolutely stupid)
  - ModernMech 4y ago
    Then I don’t understand your point. The initial claim was that programs are written for human consumption first and foremost. To me, you seem to be replying that programming languages exist that are write only. In that case, agreed. But I don’t see how that is meant to counter the claim that programs are written for humans.
    - jcelerier 4y ago
      I disagree with the "first and foremost" part - more precisely, I don't think it makes any sense to speak about this. There are people whose entire career will be only APL-ish or whatever funky ML-derived dialect, writing programs in a team of 1 and basically converting their thought processes directly into code, and their experience matters exactly as much as the experience of the X million developers in easier / more team/read-oriented languages matters.
gpderetta 4y ago
K is very niche, but in its niche is a extremely popular.

But there are APL, k, j and other array lang programs. You can't do as if those don't exist when talking about programming as a whole. Perl used to be pretty popular too.

ModernMech 4y ago

I didn't say array programming doesn't exist, I said it's not popular. How many people actually use those languages compared to e.g. Python, where readability is one of its main features. > Perl used to be pretty popular too And now it’s a meme due to how illegible it is. I’ll put it this way, there’s a reason Brainfuck is a joke lang instead of something people seriously use. Also, reading and writing are not orthogonal skills. One has to read to be able to write. I read my programs constantly as I'm writing them.

jcelerier 4y ago
and I am not writing about popularity, just saying that there are many in an absolute sense (which is honestly the only thing that matters in practice, relying on popularity of things relative to each other in a state of abundance is absolutely stupid)
- ModernMech 4y ago
  Then I don’t understand your point. The initial claim was that programs are written for human consumption first and foremost. To me, you seem to be replying that programming languages exist that are write only. In that case, agreed. But I don’t see how that is meant to counter the claim that programs are written for humans.
  - jcelerier 4y ago
    I disagree with the "first and foremost" part - more precisely, I don't think it makes any sense to speak about this. There are people whose entire career will be only APL-ish or whatever funky ML-derived dialect, writing programs in a team of 1 and basically converting their thought processes directly into code, and their experience matters exactly as much as the experience of the X million developers in easier / more team/read-oriented languages matters.

gpderetta 4y ago

K is very niche, but in its niche is a extremely popular.