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Because copying information from one computer to another costs nothing (except for the electricity and internet access). Any attempt to restrict that capability

Because copying information from one computer to another costs nothing (except for the electricity and internet access). Any attempt to restrict that capability is restricting your freedom. The moment my work (I assume you mean work as in "labor") becomes that easy to replicate, it will become worthless. But there are certain laws of physics which make it quite improbable to happen.

kgwgk 4y ago
Will you kindly share with us a copy of all your computers, devices and digital records or are you going to continue to restrict our freedom?
- kybernetikos 4y ago
  I don't think that works - the freedom he's talking about is the freedom of the person who owns the computers, devices and digital records. In the world of IP and copyright law, the ownership rights that go with owning a piece of media with particular patterns are restricted. You are not allowed to dispose of the patterns on a DVD as you might wish despite supposedly 'owning' it. This is clearly a difference from previously understood models of what ownership was. > The ordinary subjects of property are well known, and easily conceived . . . But property, when applied to ideas, or literary and intellectual compositions, is perfectly new and surprising . . . by far the most comprehensive denomination of it would be a property in nonsense - Lord Gardenston 1773
  - kgwgk 4y ago
    "You think books having a cost is a restriction of your freedom? Why? And why books, but not your work?" "Because copying information from one computer to another costs nothing (except for the electricity and internet access). Any attempt to restrict that capability is restricting your freedom." Why books, and not his work?
    - kybernetikos 4y ago
      Why do you think the author of the comment is not applying the same principle to themselves? I assume that they either have a job where they don't need the government to restrict other peoples rights of freedom of speech in order to get paid, or that they do apply it to themselves. I don't think anyone is arguing that everyone must make all digital information freely available to everyone else. Nobody is saying that books must be provided for free. The argument is that nobody should be restricted from sharing their data if that's what they want to do. That will naturally result in most widely shared digital files being made available for free, but it's because those with them exercised a right to share rather than because anyone was compelled to do anything.
      - kgwgk 4y ago
        > The argument is that nobody should be restricted from sharing their files if that's what they want to do. Don't you want to restrict people from sharing their files - even if that's what they want to do - when those files are things like your banking documents or medical records?
        kybernetikos 4y ago
        > Don't you want to restrict people from sharing their files - even if that's what they want to do - when those files are things like your banking documents or medical records? Yeah, I'm not strongly arguing for this view, merely arguing that it genuinely does represent a restriction on freedom (sometimes restrictions on freedom are sensible, although in this case I think it'd be better to try to find other ways to solve the problems of recompensing creators). If I have to take a stance on it, I'd probably say that people sharing personal and private information on me without my permission (and by the way credit agencies, governments, friends with facebook accounts and advertising companies do in fact do this) should be treated as a separate issue, and considered much more under laws against harassment or libel (which are themselves restrictions on freedom of speech too!) or perhaps breach of contract. I'm not even sure banking documents or medical records actually fall under copyright - and if they do, I don't think the copyright belongs to the patient, so I don't think it's copyright that is used in these cases anyway.
tene80i 4y ago
Pricing something beyond its marginal cost of delivery is a restriction on your freedom? I suppose it’s true, in the way not being allowed to punch someone is a restriction on your freedom.
- bheadmaster 4y ago
  Copying a file doesn't hurt anyone.
  - kgwgk 4y ago
    Will you kindly share with us a copy of all your computers, devices and digital records? Copying those files doesn't hurt anyone.
    - bheadmaster 4y ago
      No, I will not. Why would I? Freedom to copy != obligation to copy. Your arguments are erroneous, at best.
      - kgwgk 4y ago
        I'm trying to establish what your argument is. So if I get hold of your files somehow I have the freedom to copy, right?
        bheadmaster 4y ago
        If I had not shared the files with you, and they cannot be found in a public database, then the only way you could have obtained my files is through illegal means, such as breaking into my house or planting malware on my computer. In that case, the issue of sharing those files is beyond the point, since you already invaded my privacy and broke the law. If I had shared a file with you, however, then you should feel free to share it with others as much as you'd like.
- kybernetikos 4y ago

kgwgk 4y ago

Will you kindly share with us a copy of all your computers, devices and digital records or are you going to continue to restrict our freedom?

kybernetikos 4y ago
I don't think that works - the freedom he's talking about is the freedom of the person who owns the computers, devices and digital records. In the world of IP and copyright law, the ownership rights that go with owning a piece of media with particular patterns are restricted. You are not allowed to dispose of the patterns on a DVD as you might wish despite supposedly 'owning' it. This is clearly a difference from previously understood models of what ownership was. > The ordinary subjects of property are well known, and easily conceived . . . But property, when applied to ideas, or literary and intellectual compositions, is perfectly new and surprising . . . by far the most comprehensive denomination of it would be a property in nonsense - Lord Gardenston 1773
- kgwgk 4y ago
  "You think books having a cost is a restriction of your freedom? Why? And why books, but not your work?" "Because copying information from one computer to another costs nothing (except for the electricity and internet access). Any attempt to restrict that capability is restricting your freedom." Why books, and not his work?
  - kybernetikos 4y ago
    Why do you think the author of the comment is not applying the same principle to themselves? I assume that they either have a job where they don't need the government to restrict other peoples rights of freedom of speech in order to get paid, or that they do apply it to themselves. I don't think anyone is arguing that everyone must make all digital information freely available to everyone else. Nobody is saying that books must be provided for free. The argument is that nobody should be restricted from sharing their data if that's what they want to do. That will naturally result in most widely shared digital files being made available for free, but it's because those with them exercised a right to share rather than because anyone was compelled to do anything.
    - kgwgk 4y ago
      > The argument is that nobody should be restricted from sharing their files if that's what they want to do. Don't you want to restrict people from sharing their files - even if that's what they want to do - when those files are things like your banking documents or medical records?
      - kybernetikos 4y ago
        > Don't you want to restrict people from sharing their files - even if that's what they want to do - when those files are things like your banking documents or medical records? Yeah, I'm not strongly arguing for this view, merely arguing that it genuinely does represent a restriction on freedom (sometimes restrictions on freedom are sensible, although in this case I think it'd be better to try to find other ways to solve the problems of recompensing creators). If I have to take a stance on it, I'd probably say that people sharing personal and private information on me without my permission (and by the way credit agencies, governments, friends with facebook accounts and advertising companies do in fact do this) should be treated as a separate issue, and considered much more under laws against harassment or libel (which are themselves restrictions on freedom of speech too!) or perhaps breach of contract. I'm not even sure banking documents or medical records actually fall under copyright - and if they do, I don't think the copyright belongs to the patient, so I don't think it's copyright that is used in these cases anyway.

tene80i 4y ago

Pricing something beyond its marginal cost of delivery is a restriction on your freedom? I suppose it’s true, in the way not being allowed to punch someone is a restriction on your freedom.

bheadmaster 4y ago
Copying a file doesn't hurt anyone.
- kgwgk 4y ago
  Will you kindly share with us a copy of all your computers, devices and digital records? Copying those files doesn't hurt anyone.
  - bheadmaster 4y ago
    No, I will not. Why would I? Freedom to copy != obligation to copy. Your arguments are erroneous, at best.
    - kgwgk 4y ago
      I'm trying to establish what your argument is. So if I get hold of your files somehow I have the freedom to copy, right?
      - bheadmaster 4y ago
        If I had not shared the files with you, and they cannot be found in a public database, then the only way you could have obtained my files is through illegal means, such as breaking into my house or planting malware on my computer. In that case, the issue of sharing those files is beyond the point, since you already invaded my privacy and broke the law. If I had shared a file with you, however, then you should feel free to share it with others as much as you'd like.
kybernetikos 4y ago