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There are far too many people who don't understand the difference between power and energy. If you give me a lump of coal you give me power. If I burn that coa

There are far too many people who don't understand the difference between power and energy. If you give me a lump of coal you give me power. If I burn that coal I get power. Renewable energy is cheap. Renewable power isn't. Nuclear energy is expensive. Nuclear power isn't. You can't run a modern economy on renewables because you can't turn off society when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow. Europe is now learning this painful lesson.

khariel 4y ago
> If you give me a lump of coal you give me power. Did you mean energy here?
phicoh 4y ago
Typical nuclear fanboy. Nobody is running on renewables. Well, there are some exceptions. Countries like Norway and Sweden have enough hydro that they do run on renewables. But ignoring those, nobody does. Wind and solar pairs well with natural gas. Coming from a fossil fuel situation, wind and solar paired with gas have the big advantage that you get a reliable system, easy reduction of CO2 by adding more wind and solar. And it is cheap. New nuclear is not cheap (compared to Russian gas). Of course where this failed was in the gas part. Obviously, wind and solar need to be blamed for the lack of Russian gas. Same with Texas, when something goes wrong, blame renewables. The obvious problem, for both renewables and for nuclear is cheap fossil fuel. Expensive fossil fuel might make nuclear attractive. Expensive fossil fuel will result in a focus on storage. But before that, most EU countries need a lot more wind and solar before they can focus on storage. There is no point in focusing on storage if output of renewables can't keep up with demand.
jopsen 4y ago
Won't you just need 10x capacity spread over a large area with good transfer connections. Maybe, a but if pumped hydro, some batteries, and power intensive industries running only when power is cheap? (Not that nuclear wouldn't be nice, it's just never quick fix)
- thrown_22 4y ago
  >What if we turned off society whenever the sun stopped shining? Sure. Hope you don't have anything important running on electricity, like say life support systems.
jwatt 4y ago
What? Power is the rate at which energy is supplied. Power and energy from one source are both exactly proportional to power and energy, respectively, from another source. Fuel, or cost of infrastructure, of whatever it is you're referring to here when you say "energy", isn't energy.

khariel 4y ago

> If you give me a lump of coal you give me power. Did you mean energy here?

phicoh 4y ago

Typical nuclear fanboy. Nobody is running on renewables. Well, there are some exceptions. Countries like Norway and Sweden have enough hydro that they do run on renewables. But ignoring those, nobody does. Wind and solar pairs well with natural gas. Coming from a fossil fuel situation, wind and solar paired with gas have the big advantage that you get a reliable system, easy reduction of CO2 by adding more wind and solar. And it is cheap. New nuclear is not cheap (compared to Russian gas). Of course where this failed was in the gas part. Obviously, wind and solar need to be blamed for the lack of Russian gas. Same with Texas, when something goes wrong, blame renewables. The obvious problem, for both renewables and for nuclear is cheap fossil fuel. Expensive fossil fuel might make nuclear attractive. Expensive fossil fuel will result in a focus on storage. But before that, most EU countries need a lot more wind and solar before they can focus on storage. There is no point in focusing on storage if output of renewables can't keep up with demand.

jopsen 4y ago

Won't you just need 10x capacity spread over a large area with good transfer connections. Maybe, a but if pumped hydro, some batteries, and power intensive industries running only when power is cheap? (Not that nuclear wouldn't be nice, it's just never quick fix)

thrown_22 4y ago
>What if we turned off society whenever the sun stopped shining? Sure. Hope you don't have anything important running on electricity, like say life support systems.

jwatt 4y ago

What? Power is the rate at which energy is supplied. Power and energy from one source are both exactly proportional to power and energy, respectively, from another source. Fuel, or cost of infrastructure, of whatever it is you're referring to here when you say "energy", isn't energy.