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The single tanker load is a detail German state media conveniently leaves out of their reporting. [0] Germany also has gas reserves in shale. But fracking is u

The single tanker load is a detail German state media conveniently leaves out of their reporting. [0] Germany also has gas reserves in shale. But fracking is unacceptable to the Green party. The environmental damages have to happen outside of their view. [0]: https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/asien/scholz-vae-fluessiggas-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/asien/scholz-vae-fluessigg...

mach1ne 4y ago
Didn't German Green Party greenlight (sorry) driving down nuclear energy in favor of coal? Political parties tend to minmax popular support over success of personal ideology, perhaps that's the case here as well.
- brazzy 4y ago
  That is so simplified that it's basically just wrong. Nuclear power has been very unpopular in Germany since before Chernobyl. Phasing it out was a core goal of the Green party since its founding. They implemented it (on a decades-long timeline) when they first became part of a federal government in 1998. The decision was reversed by the Merkel government, which then reversed the reversal shortly after Fukushima. And it was never in favor of coal, neither in theory not in practice. Both nuclear and coal have been replaced to a large degree by renewables, and to a lesser degree by gas.
  - mach1ne 4y ago
    This was where I got the idea, must have seen this in HN some time ago: https://twitter.com/mark_lynas/status/1545345583262695424 https://twitter.com/mark_lynas/status/1545345583262695424 At least that source seems to claim exactly what I referred above.
    - brazzy 4y ago
      OK, we're talking about different time frames. The tweet is about two specific reactors that have long been scheduled to be shut down and where, in light of the current crisis, there was discussion about delaying that. Note that the decision was absolutely not just done by the Green party, and in good part based on statements from the power company that they cannot keep running them. My comment was about the long-term decision to phase out nuclear power in Germany, originally made 20 years ago.
      - mach1ne 4y ago
        Allright, thanks for the info - it's an interesting case for a foreigner.
ls15 4y ago
Maybe the article does not mention it, but the same outlet discusses fracking in Germany in another article. https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/fracking-verbot-london-energiequellen-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/fracking-verbot-london-... > Politisch ist das Thema umstritten. Im ARD-Deutschlandtrend vom August zu den energiepolitischen Maßnahmen hielten die Förderung von sogenanntem Fracking-Gas in Deutschland nur 27 Prozent für richtig, 56 Prozent für falsch. Deepl: > Politically, the issue is controversial. In the August ARD Deutschlandtrend on energy policy measures, only 27 percent thought the promotion of so-called fracked gas in Germany was right, while 56 percent thought it was wrong. It probably takes years to get these resources online anyway. However, Germany also has unused nuclear powerplants that are also kind of taboo, but public opinion is much more in favor of those. Something has to give.
misja111 4y ago
> The environmental damages have to happen outside of their view Exactly. Until the Ukraine war started, the Green party was perfectly happy with importing loads of gas from Russia. Is gas mining done in such an environment friendly way in Russia? Well, it is not. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/russia-europe-gas-pipeline-climate-impact-2021/?leadSource=uverify%20wall https://www.bloomberg.com/features/russia-europe-gas-pipelin...
- bitL 4y ago
  Exporting externalities is en vogue. Like when they exported old tires to Poland who in turn burned them right away and still claimed to be green...
hi_herbert 4y ago

mach1ne 4y ago

Didn't German Green Party greenlight (sorry) driving down nuclear energy in favor of coal? Political parties tend to minmax popular support over success of personal ideology, perhaps that's the case here as well.

brazzy 4y ago
That is so simplified that it's basically just wrong. Nuclear power has been very unpopular in Germany since before Chernobyl. Phasing it out was a core goal of the Green party since its founding. They implemented it (on a decades-long timeline) when they first became part of a federal government in 1998. The decision was reversed by the Merkel government, which then reversed the reversal shortly after Fukushima. And it was never in favor of coal, neither in theory not in practice. Both nuclear and coal have been replaced to a large degree by renewables, and to a lesser degree by gas.
- mach1ne 4y ago
  This was where I got the idea, must have seen this in HN some time ago: https://twitter.com/mark_lynas/status/1545345583262695424 https://twitter.com/mark_lynas/status/1545345583262695424 At least that source seems to claim exactly what I referred above.
  - brazzy 4y ago
    OK, we're talking about different time frames. The tweet is about two specific reactors that have long been scheduled to be shut down and where, in light of the current crisis, there was discussion about delaying that. Note that the decision was absolutely not just done by the Green party, and in good part based on statements from the power company that they cannot keep running them. My comment was about the long-term decision to phase out nuclear power in Germany, originally made 20 years ago.
    - mach1ne 4y ago
      Allright, thanks for the info - it's an interesting case for a foreigner.

ls15 4y ago

Maybe the article does not mention it, but the same outlet discusses fracking in Germany in another article. https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/fracking-verbot-london-energiequellen-101.html https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/fracking-verbot-london-... > Politisch ist das Thema umstritten. Im ARD-Deutschlandtrend vom August zu den energiepolitischen Maßnahmen hielten die Förderung von sogenanntem Fracking-Gas in Deutschland nur 27 Prozent für richtig, 56 Prozent für falsch. Deepl: > Politically, the issue is controversial. In the August ARD Deutschlandtrend on energy policy measures, only 27 percent thought the promotion of so-called fracked gas in Germany was right, while 56 percent thought it was wrong. It probably takes years to get these resources online anyway. However, Germany also has unused nuclear powerplants that are also kind of taboo, but public opinion is much more in favor of those. Something has to give.

misja111 4y ago

> The environmental damages have to happen outside of their view Exactly. Until the Ukraine war started, the Green party was perfectly happy with importing loads of gas from Russia. Is gas mining done in such an environment friendly way in Russia? Well, it is not. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/russia-europe-gas-pipeline-climate-impact-2021/?leadSource=uverify%20wall https://www.bloomberg.com/features/russia-europe-gas-pipelin...

bitL 4y ago
Exporting externalities is en vogue. Like when they exported old tires to Poland who in turn burned them right away and still claimed to be green...

hi_herbert 4y ago