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Can you source that quote? The closest I can find that made it to actual commanders is: "If hostilities cannot repeat not be avoided the United States desires

Can you source that quote? The closest I can find that made it to actual commanders is: "If hostilities cannot repeat not be avoided the United States desires that Japan commit the first overt act. This policy should not repeat not be construed as restricting you to a course of action that might jeopardize your defense." Which is very different from the conspiratorial intent you're implying.

orangepurple 4y ago
Yep, I believe that's the exact quote. The US started putting impossible demands on Japan to suffocate them economically and militarily and when it was obvious that Japan was pushed to the breaking point the attack on Pearl Harbor was "allowed" to justify the ensuing war back home. Interestingly I see a lot of parallels in the war in Ukraine right now. The US and EU started arming bordering countries and applying extreme economic sanctions on Russia in rapid succession and "everyone" was surprised that the invasion occurred. Now everyone sees Russia as the overt oppressor. Mission accomplished? https://www.learnliberty.org/blog/did-the-us-provoke-japans-attack-on-pearl-harbor/ https://www.learnliberty.org/blog/did-the-us-provoke-japans-...
- yongjik 4y ago
  > The US started putting impossible demands on Japan to suffocate them economically and militarily ... This is the same historical revisionist nonsense floated by Japanese right wing to claim that Japan was somehow "forced" to attack America and WW2 was a just war of defense.
- alamortsubite 4y ago
  > The US and EU started arming bordering countries and applying extreme economic sanctions on Russia in rapid succession and "everyone" was surprised that the invasion occurred. Precisely what sanctions did the US and EU levy before Russia invaded Ukraine?
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  Japan had plenty of oil and energy to sustain peaceful operations. They "needed" more oil to wage their land war in China and naval conquest across the Pacific. They tried negotiating with the Dutch to get oil from the Dutch East Indies. When these negotiations failed, they hatched a plan to take that oil by force. The subsequent oil embargo against Japan was a response to that. The reason they picked a fight with America was because the American occupied Philippines was located directly between Japan and the Dutch East Indies. They knew that to take the Dutch East Indies they would need to take the Philippines as well, so they decided to destroy the US Navy first. Internet commenters like to make a big deal out of the oil embargo, saying that America twisted Japan's arm and forced them into a war. This is not true. Japan's arm was twisted by their own imperial ambition which demanded that oil. If they never had that ambition they would not have needed that oil in the first place, nor would they have been slapped with an oil embargo.
- macintux 4y ago
  Or maybe neighbors were armed because Russia has a long history of invading them.
  - thriftwy 4y ago
    In Europe, everybody has a long history of being invaded by everybody else, so trying to spin that as "Russia bad" requires a very myopic outlook. Russia also has a long history of being invaded from the West. That's why Russia is super nervious about NATO expansion.
    - macintux 4y ago
      Last time Russia was invaded: the time they helped a genocidal maniac try to conquer Europe, 80 years ago. Last time Russia’s neighbors were invaded by them: well, obviously, now.
      - thriftwy 4y ago
        That genocidal maniac is who unites the EU today. If you no longer blame Germany for Hitler you can't in any kind of good faith blame Russia for Soviet Union's pact with Hitler.
        macintux 4y ago
        I’m fine blaming the current genocidal maniac: Putin.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      Most of Europe lost their taste for war a few generations ago, and have since tried to create a world where constant invasions of their neighbors is no longer the status quo. They are weary of Russia because Russia never got with the program. Russia does not believe that a peaceful future is possible, assumes the old status quo will continue, and act accordingly by continuing to invade their neighbors. And just to preempt the inevitable whataboutism; America never got with the program either. Not really. But America isn't the one threatening Western Europe with war, and Eastern European countries like Poland and Ukraine choosing to align themselves with America/NATO to protect themselves against Russia speaks volumes about the relative threat of America vs Russia to peace in Europe.
- nfriedly 4y ago
  > The US and EU started arming bordering countries and applying extreme economic sanctions on Russia in rapid succession and "everyone" was surprised that the invasion occurred. I think you're getting things out of order there - the economic sanctions came after the invasion. Don't forget that Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014; that also was met with sanctions.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Lets indulge this - if that was the plan, youd hope they would be better prepared for Russia shutting off the gas pipelines. If they didnt switch to renewables and nuclear, at least they would have full gas storage and LNG terminals and contracts in place? Instead, they were caight with their pants down

orangepurple 4y ago

Yep, I believe that's the exact quote. The US started putting impossible demands on Japan to suffocate them economically and militarily and when it was obvious that Japan was pushed to the breaking point the attack on Pearl Harbor was "allowed" to justify the ensuing war back home. Interestingly I see a lot of parallels in the war in Ukraine right now. The US and EU started arming bordering countries and applying extreme economic sanctions on Russia in rapid succession and "everyone" was surprised that the invasion occurred. Now everyone sees Russia as the overt oppressor. Mission accomplished? https://www.learnliberty.org/blog/did-the-us-provoke-japans-attack-on-pearl-harbor/ https://www.learnliberty.org/blog/did-the-us-provoke-japans-...

yongjik 4y ago
> The US started putting impossible demands on Japan to suffocate them economically and militarily ... This is the same historical revisionist nonsense floated by Japanese right wing to claim that Japan was somehow "forced" to attack America and WW2 was a just war of defense.
alamortsubite 4y ago
> The US and EU started arming bordering countries and applying extreme economic sanctions on Russia in rapid succession and "everyone" was surprised that the invasion occurred. Precisely what sanctions did the US and EU levy before Russia invaded Ukraine?
MichaelCollins 4y ago
Japan had plenty of oil and energy to sustain peaceful operations. They "needed" more oil to wage their land war in China and naval conquest across the Pacific. They tried negotiating with the Dutch to get oil from the Dutch East Indies. When these negotiations failed, they hatched a plan to take that oil by force. The subsequent oil embargo against Japan was a response to that. The reason they picked a fight with America was because the American occupied Philippines was located directly between Japan and the Dutch East Indies. They knew that to take the Dutch East Indies they would need to take the Philippines as well, so they decided to destroy the US Navy first. Internet commenters like to make a big deal out of the oil embargo, saying that America twisted Japan's arm and forced them into a war. This is not true. Japan's arm was twisted by their own imperial ambition which demanded that oil. If they never had that ambition they would not have needed that oil in the first place, nor would they have been slapped with an oil embargo.
macintux 4y ago
Or maybe neighbors were armed because Russia has a long history of invading them.
- thriftwy 4y ago
  In Europe, everybody has a long history of being invaded by everybody else, so trying to spin that as "Russia bad" requires a very myopic outlook. Russia also has a long history of being invaded from the West. That's why Russia is super nervious about NATO expansion.
  - macintux 4y ago
    Last time Russia was invaded: the time they helped a genocidal maniac try to conquer Europe, 80 years ago. Last time Russia’s neighbors were invaded by them: well, obviously, now.
    - thriftwy 4y ago
      That genocidal maniac is who unites the EU today. If you no longer blame Germany for Hitler you can't in any kind of good faith blame Russia for Soviet Union's pact with Hitler.
      - macintux 4y ago
        I’m fine blaming the current genocidal maniac: Putin.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    Most of Europe lost their taste for war a few generations ago, and have since tried to create a world where constant invasions of their neighbors is no longer the status quo. They are weary of Russia because Russia never got with the program. Russia does not believe that a peaceful future is possible, assumes the old status quo will continue, and act accordingly by continuing to invade their neighbors. And just to preempt the inevitable whataboutism; America never got with the program either. Not really. But America isn't the one threatening Western Europe with war, and Eastern European countries like Poland and Ukraine choosing to align themselves with America/NATO to protect themselves against Russia speaks volumes about the relative threat of America vs Russia to peace in Europe.
nfriedly 4y ago
> The US and EU started arming bordering countries and applying extreme economic sanctions on Russia in rapid succession and "everyone" was surprised that the invasion occurred. I think you're getting things out of order there - the economic sanctions came after the invasion. Don't forget that Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014; that also was met with sanctions.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
Lets indulge this - if that was the plan, youd hope they would be better prepared for Russia shutting off the gas pipelines. If they didnt switch to renewables and nuclear, at least they would have full gas storage and LNG terminals and contracts in place? Instead, they were caight with their pants down