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> So history plays a role? Culture definitely plays a role. Soviet Union making women totally equal, mandating and promoting equal participation from women in

> So history plays a role? Culture definitely plays a role. Soviet Union making women totally equal, mandating and promoting equal participation from women in all aspects of life definitely broke the longstanding cultural norms about 'what women should be doing in work life' - most of which came from especially Christian religion traditions. On top of that, Soviet Union also promoted STEM jobs as a way to move the society into the future. This elevated STEM jobs in prestige and respectability compared to others. So naturally these jobs' standing among women rose as well. The simple result of this is women being in STEM jobs not only being normal but also desirable in post-Soviet society.

badpun 4y ago
> Culture definitely plays a role. Soviet Union making women totally equal, mandating and promoting equal participation from women in all aspects of life definitely broke the longstanding cultural norms about 'what women should be doing in work life' Yep. My grandma worked in a freaking coal mine in the 1940s. There were hardly if any "men only" jobs. It was also necessary because so many men died during the war that, without women's wide participation in labor, the economies would hardly work. > most of which came from especially Christian religion traditions. I don't think that's it. Pre-Christianity Europe was the same. It's just a deeply rooted, many millenia-long tradition, very similar as in other agricultural societies BTW.
- unity1001 4y ago
  Nope. Despite there have been division of labor and traditions historically, semitic religions - foremost Christianity - are what codified the 'lower status' of women, including how they were beneath men, or even 'sinful and dangerous'. You have no idea how it was during the middle ages until Cathars, despite having been persecuted and massacred, have changed the perception of women to the 'bad' state that we later knew. Before Cathars, it was much worse.
  - GoldenMonkey 4y ago
    Interesting viewpoint considering that Christianity was the only religion one could join without tribal, ethnic or blood ties. The only religion open and accepting of others at the time. And even women had equal standing before God. Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” And that is why the Roman Emperor Constantine, was able to embrace it as Rome’s state religion.
thrown_22 4y ago
What's missing from the cultural explanation is the free universal child care that everyone got and the quotas of equal genders in all professions. Something no one in the west understands (or will likely believe) was that to be a female primary school teacher required higher grades than to be a female physicist/mathematician/computer scientists. The reverse was true for men. My mother for example didn't have the grades to go into education but did have the grades to go into electrical engineering/computer science. My father on the other hand only needed a pulse to get into education but had no interest in dealing with other people's snot nosed brats.
somedude895 4y ago
The effect is much more pronounced in Arab countries than in ex USSR countries, so this is definitely not it.
- unity1001 4y ago
  Nope. That's it - the effect in USSR is society wide. Its an entire retooling of culture. In Arab countries, there has been some effort in the same direction by the socialist governments of 1950s and 1960s. Those did some effect, but they were not as profound as USSR's cultural impact. Today the upper classes of Arab societies send their daughters to STEM schools for economic reasons and for the prestige that those fields gained during that period.

badpun 4y ago

> Culture definitely plays a role. Soviet Union making women totally equal, mandating and promoting equal participation from women in all aspects of life definitely broke the longstanding cultural norms about 'what women should be doing in work life' Yep. My grandma worked in a freaking coal mine in the 1940s. There were hardly if any "men only" jobs. It was also necessary because so many men died during the war that, without women's wide participation in labor, the economies would hardly work. > most of which came from especially Christian religion traditions. I don't think that's it. Pre-Christianity Europe was the same. It's just a deeply rooted, many millenia-long tradition, very similar as in other agricultural societies BTW.

unity1001 4y ago
Nope. Despite there have been division of labor and traditions historically, semitic religions - foremost Christianity - are what codified the 'lower status' of women, including how they were beneath men, or even 'sinful and dangerous'. You have no idea how it was during the middle ages until Cathars, despite having been persecuted and massacred, have changed the perception of women to the 'bad' state that we later knew. Before Cathars, it was much worse.
- GoldenMonkey 4y ago
  Interesting viewpoint considering that Christianity was the only religion one could join without tribal, ethnic or blood ties. The only religion open and accepting of others at the time. And even women had equal standing before God. Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” And that is why the Roman Emperor Constantine, was able to embrace it as Rome’s state religion.

thrown_22 4y ago

What's missing from the cultural explanation is the free universal child care that everyone got and the quotas of equal genders in all professions. Something no one in the west understands (or will likely believe) was that to be a female primary school teacher required higher grades than to be a female physicist/mathematician/computer scientists. The reverse was true for men. My mother for example didn't have the grades to go into education but did have the grades to go into electrical engineering/computer science. My father on the other hand only needed a pulse to get into education but had no interest in dealing with other people's snot nosed brats.

somedude895 4y ago

The effect is much more pronounced in Arab countries than in ex USSR countries, so this is definitely not it.

unity1001 4y ago
Nope. That's it - the effect in USSR is society wide. Its an entire retooling of culture. In Arab countries, there has been some effort in the same direction by the socialist governments of 1950s and 1960s. Those did some effect, but they were not as profound as USSR's cultural impact. Today the upper classes of Arab societies send their daughters to STEM schools for economic reasons and for the prestige that those fields gained during that period.