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“It’s on TV when the city is negotiating with the city manager to give them a 3 percent raise,” said National League of Cities CEO Clarence E. Anthony, describi

by BMc2020 4y ago

“It’s on TV when the city is negotiating with the city manager to give them a 3 percent raise,” said National League of Cities CEO Clarence E. Anthony, describing a “fishbowl effect” that doesn’t exist for most private-employer wage negotiations. “People call in, saying, ‘Why do they deserve an increase? They’re public servants!’” Governments have offered modest raises that (mostly) haven’t kept up with inflation. Meanwhile, they’ve devoted large chunks of their budget surpluses to tax cuts. I dug up the lede from where it was buried.

mistrial9 4y ago
the fattest, laziest, most 401k retirement gold plated health care bureaucrats I have ever met in real life, say exactly "you don't pay well enough, we need budget increases" as a reply to almost every problem. Their leaders rise in the ranks by making this statement with ever-more removal of details, essentially no accountability, no efficiency designs, no program changes.. Calling out a single unfair, one-sided statement as your rallying cry, is negotiations 101. all sides are guilty here
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  I hear you, but let's circle back to the part where EMS staff is being poached by Dunkin fucking Donuts. That should not even be possible. A pizza delivery driver in a decent delivery area can make multiples (!!!) of the median salary for EMS staff.
  - MikePlacid 4y ago
    > private firms are rapidly raising compensation. Government employers have been slower to adapt Reads like someone has discovered that the government sector has a hard time competing with the capitalist sector.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      The government offers stability and post retirement benefits, as opposed to cash remuneration. Neither of those have to be properly accounted for in dollar terms today, so this type of remuneration is useful for campaigning on “keeping taxes low today”.
      - ceeplusplus 4y ago
        Pensions are notoriously under/unfunded, particularly in local governments. I wouldn't count that as a guaranteed benefit. It may retroactively be cut in the future. > Neither of those have to be properly accounted for in dollar terms today They actually are, at least for pension contributions.
        lotsofpulp 4y ago
        >They actually are, at least for pension contributions. No. The government exempts taxpayer funded pensions from laws about calculating pension liabilities, and so they use discount rates far above what non taxpayer funded pension funds are required to use. And even these liberally calculated costs are not even funded properly, because there is nothing stopping the politician from not kicking the can down the road.
- rdtwo 4y ago
  Paying people 50% of their wages in ballooning retirement benefits is not the best way to get the best and brightest.
  - jackcosgrove 4y ago
    Given we have stagnant or declining populations any defined benefit pension plan will fall short of the promises in the coming decades. Not only is deferred compensation unappealing to many people because of present time orientation, it's a riskier pension than a defined contribution plan. You also lose out on the ability to negotiate better compensation by changing jobs. On the whole the lifetime employment model was abandoned by the private sector decades ago for many good reasons, namely the impossibility of funding defined benefits after population growth stalled; as usual the government is the last place in society that makes necessary changes.
    - rdtwo 4y ago
      It’s a bad model I ageee but the defined benefits Usally get pegged at last couple years salary so you just have to hope you don’t retire into inflation like we have now
      - malandrew 4y ago
        On the other hand, defining the benefits based on the last few years, leads to employees taking every overtime opportunity for the last few years to inflate their retirement benefits. Overtime absolutely should be excluded for the calculus so people can’t game the system.
treis 4y ago
Government is a microcosm of the economy. Like we're not want for applicants for cushy middle management and above government jobs. We can't find the bus drivers, teachers,cops, and so on that get (relative) shit wages for crap jobs.

mistrial9 4y ago

the fattest, laziest, most 401k retirement gold plated health care bureaucrats I have ever met in real life, say exactly "you don't pay well enough, we need budget increases" as a reply to almost every problem. Their leaders rise in the ranks by making this statement with ever-more removal of details, essentially no accountability, no efficiency designs, no program changes.. Calling out a single unfair, one-sided statement as your rallying cry, is negotiations 101. all sides are guilty here

forgetfreeman 4y ago
I hear you, but let's circle back to the part where EMS staff is being poached by Dunkin fucking Donuts. That should not even be possible. A pizza delivery driver in a decent delivery area can make multiples (!!!) of the median salary for EMS staff.
- MikePlacid 4y ago
  > private firms are rapidly raising compensation. Government employers have been slower to adapt Reads like someone has discovered that the government sector has a hard time competing with the capitalist sector.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    The government offers stability and post retirement benefits, as opposed to cash remuneration. Neither of those have to be properly accounted for in dollar terms today, so this type of remuneration is useful for campaigning on “keeping taxes low today”.
    - ceeplusplus 4y ago
      Pensions are notoriously under/unfunded, particularly in local governments. I wouldn't count that as a guaranteed benefit. It may retroactively be cut in the future. > Neither of those have to be properly accounted for in dollar terms today They actually are, at least for pension contributions.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        >They actually are, at least for pension contributions. No. The government exempts taxpayer funded pensions from laws about calculating pension liabilities, and so they use discount rates far above what non taxpayer funded pension funds are required to use. And even these liberally calculated costs are not even funded properly, because there is nothing stopping the politician from not kicking the can down the road.
rdtwo 4y ago
Paying people 50% of their wages in ballooning retirement benefits is not the best way to get the best and brightest.
- jackcosgrove 4y ago
  Given we have stagnant or declining populations any defined benefit pension plan will fall short of the promises in the coming decades. Not only is deferred compensation unappealing to many people because of present time orientation, it's a riskier pension than a defined contribution plan. You also lose out on the ability to negotiate better compensation by changing jobs. On the whole the lifetime employment model was abandoned by the private sector decades ago for many good reasons, namely the impossibility of funding defined benefits after population growth stalled; as usual the government is the last place in society that makes necessary changes.
  - rdtwo 4y ago
    It’s a bad model I ageee but the defined benefits Usally get pegged at last couple years salary so you just have to hope you don’t retire into inflation like we have now
    - malandrew 4y ago
      On the other hand, defining the benefits based on the last few years, leads to employees taking every overtime opportunity for the last few years to inflate their retirement benefits. Overtime absolutely should be excluded for the calculus so people can’t game the system.

treis 4y ago

Government is a microcosm of the economy. Like we're not want for applicants for cushy middle management and above government jobs. We can't find the bus drivers, teachers,cops, and so on that get (relative) shit wages for crap jobs.