4 ms·

Quebec enacts many policies to protect their culture — french language requirements, banning religious symbols and clothing in certain places and jobs, etc — wh

Quebec enacts many policies to protect their culture — french language requirements, banning religious symbols and clothing in certain places and jobs, etc — which make it harder for immigrants (and Canadians from other provinces) to integrate. I don’t think Quebec is anti-immigration, but they expect immigrants to make more of an effort conforming to Quebec culture and identity than other Canadian provinces do.

4gotunameagain 4y ago
shouldn't a small degree of forced uniformity aid in integration ? we've seen in other more liberal communities (Denmark, Sweden) that influx of culturally different immigrants tends to create nuclei of those cultures where they just interact amongst themselves, and never integrate. I would argue that expecting a middle eastern to integrate into a northern European society is a farce.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  that might speak more to danish and swedish culture, biases than to the immigrants. you picked notoriously racist societies with strong public neonazi movements instead of an example like toronto
  - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
    I picked those societies because those are some of the ones I've interacted with therefore can have an opinion. And what I saw was not racism, what I saw was Arab immigrants trying to make Danish schools ban pork, or having a complete disregard to the "tidy" Danish way of life (whether you like that way of life or not)
- g8oz 4y ago
  >>I would argue that expecting a middle eastern to integrate into a northern European society is a farce. I would argue that if the children of those immigrants are not fitting in then you have a problem. And that problem usually has to do with marginalization. In heavily immigrant areas do the people see themselves reflected in public insitutions? In teaching staff, bus drivers, police? America and Canada have historically been much better at this part than Europe.
  - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
    And how did that end up for America ? A country so fragmented and divided, torn by tensions to the point where recent discussions were mentioning civil war as a possibility, or even as an ongoing thing in a new form. Does immigration offer so much more other than cheap labour ?
    - jszymborski 4y ago
      Immigration is not the cause of polarisation in the US. There is a dangerous precedent of blaming all of a countries problems on immigrants and ethnic groups. Polarisation in the US, in my estimation, has a lot more to do with democratic backsliding [0] cause by economic inequality, populism, cultural conservatism and the concentration of power in the US gov't. Lots of things with much more evidence to point at before you start blaming immigrants. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding
  - ryan93 4y ago
    Why would a society that is almost completely white reflect a new group of immigrants. And you obviously know that Muslim men aren’t Limiting their children’s educations and integration until the bus driver is brown. What is your motivation for lying?
    - g8oz 4y ago
      Wider reading and interactions would do your arguments some good. >>What is your motivation for lying? Unhinged.
      - ryan93 4y ago
        You made such an absurdly strong claim with zero evidence. Their muslim faith and home country culture explains a lot more of their behavior than the skin color of people working public facing roles
jszymborski 4y ago
I wouldn't say Quebec is anti-immigration, but our leading politicians are. Premiere Francois Legault linked immigration to extremism and violence in the last couple of days [0], and the party who is polling second in terms of percent thinks that immigration should be lowered still [1]. [0] https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1912126/legault-apologizes-for-comments-citing-extremism-violence-as-reasons-to-limit-immigration https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1912126/legault-apol... [1] https://www.lesoleil.com/2021/11/21/le-parti-conservateur-du-quebec-veut-moins-dimmigrants-b1bcf3d41cd23fbc1a5606f8234d6cbd https://www.lesoleil.com/2021/11/21/le-parti-conservateur-du...

4gotunameagain 4y ago

shouldn't a small degree of forced uniformity aid in integration ? we've seen in other more liberal communities (Denmark, Sweden) that influx of culturally different immigrants tends to create nuclei of those cultures where they just interact amongst themselves, and never integrate. I would argue that expecting a middle eastern to integrate into a northern European society is a farce.

wahnfrieden 4y ago
that might speak more to danish and swedish culture, biases than to the immigrants. you picked notoriously racist societies with strong public neonazi movements instead of an example like toronto
- 4gotunameagain 4y ago
  I picked those societies because those are some of the ones I've interacted with therefore can have an opinion. And what I saw was not racism, what I saw was Arab immigrants trying to make Danish schools ban pork, or having a complete disregard to the "tidy" Danish way of life (whether you like that way of life or not)
g8oz 4y ago
>>I would argue that expecting a middle eastern to integrate into a northern European society is a farce. I would argue that if the children of those immigrants are not fitting in then you have a problem. And that problem usually has to do with marginalization. In heavily immigrant areas do the people see themselves reflected in public insitutions? In teaching staff, bus drivers, police? America and Canada have historically been much better at this part than Europe.
- 4gotunameagain 4y ago
  And how did that end up for America ? A country so fragmented and divided, torn by tensions to the point where recent discussions were mentioning civil war as a possibility, or even as an ongoing thing in a new form. Does immigration offer so much more other than cheap labour ?
  - jszymborski 4y ago
    Immigration is not the cause of polarisation in the US. There is a dangerous precedent of blaming all of a countries problems on immigrants and ethnic groups. Polarisation in the US, in my estimation, has a lot more to do with democratic backsliding [0] cause by economic inequality, populism, cultural conservatism and the concentration of power in the US gov't. Lots of things with much more evidence to point at before you start blaming immigrants. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding
- ryan93 4y ago
  Why would a society that is almost completely white reflect a new group of immigrants. And you obviously know that Muslim men aren’t Limiting their children’s educations and integration until the bus driver is brown. What is your motivation for lying?
  - g8oz 4y ago
    Wider reading and interactions would do your arguments some good. >>What is your motivation for lying? Unhinged.
    - ryan93 4y ago
      You made such an absurdly strong claim with zero evidence. Their muslim faith and home country culture explains a lot more of their behavior than the skin color of people working public facing roles

jszymborski 4y ago

I wouldn't say Quebec is anti-immigration, but our leading politicians are. Premiere Francois Legault linked immigration to extremism and violence in the last couple of days [0], and the party who is polling second in terms of percent thinks that immigration should be lowered still [1]. [0] https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1912126/legault-apologizes-for-comments-citing-extremism-violence-as-reasons-to-limit-immigration https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/1912126/legault-apol... [1] https://www.lesoleil.com/2021/11/21/le-parti-conservateur-du-quebec-veut-moins-dimmigrants-b1bcf3d41cd23fbc1a5606f8234d6cbd https://www.lesoleil.com/2021/11/21/le-parti-conservateur-du...